HomeMy WebLinkAboutCity/County Planning Board Minutes 09.11.1997 MINUTES
CITY-COUNTY PLANNING BOARD
SEPTEMBER 11, 1997 7:00 P.M.
COUNCIL CHAMBERS
MEMBERS PRESENT:
OTHERS PRESENT:
John H. Smith, Chairman
Gerald Shay, Member at Large
Ziggy Ziegler, County Rep.
Charles Fischer, City Rep.
Donna Kilpatrick, City Rep.
Bob Dantic, City Rep.
Clarence Foos, County Rep.
Miles Walton, City Rep. (arrived 7:10)
Cal Cumin, City Planner
Cheryll Lund, Secretary
Motion by Donna Kilpatrick, seconded by ~erald Shay, to
approve the minutes of the July 1997 meeting. Motion carried 6--0.
Motion by Ziggy Ziegler, seconded by Bob Dantic, to approve
the administrative services bills for August and September 1997 for
a total of $400.00. Motion carried 7--0.
Home OccuDations
Barbara Resser of 314 Montana wants to sell craft items that she
makes and restores out of her home. She would have stock on hand
and customers coming to her home. She plans to use her porch to
display the items. She would only be open on Fridays and
Saturdays.
Ca! recommends denial due to the home occupation ordinance that
states no customers are to come to the home and no stock is to be
kepU on hand ~r put on display.
Motion by Donna Kilpatrick, seconded by Charlie Fischer, to
recommend denial of this home occupation due to customers and stock
on hand and goods displayed. Motion carried 6--0.
Diana Wham of 402 5th Avenue wants to run daycare out of her home.
It would be Monday-Friday 7:30 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. and she would have
a maximum of 6 children. She is in the process of becoming state
approved.
Cal recommended approval of the home occupation.
Motion bY Gerald Shay, seconded by Donna Kilpatrick, to
recommend approval of the home occupation for Diana Wham at 402 5th
Avenue for daycare. Motion carried 6--0.
Miles Walton arrived at the meeting at this time (7:10 pm).
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Laura Melton of 412 5th Avenue has requested a home occupation to
baby-sit part time in her home. She will baby-sit 3 children on
and off and does not plan to be state approved.
Cal recommends approval.
Motion by Donna Kilpatrick, seconded by Bob Dantic, to
recommend approval of the home occupation for Laura Melton to baby-
sit 3 children part time in her home. Motion carried 7--0.
Zone Chanqe- Vincent and Debbie Ricci:
'Vince Ricci introduced himself and his wife Debbie. They have been
in business in Laurel since 1989.
Vince introduced Reed Larson who is the Store Development
Coordinator for Associated Foods out of Salt Lake City, Utah.
Associated has regional offices in Billings, Helena, and Boise,
Idaho. They operate in 7 states in the intermountain area. They
represent and supply wholesale groceries to 727 stores in that
area. They are a co-op, so they are owned by the retailers. They
operate under the direction of the retailers.
They provide a number of services to the retailers, in addition to
supplying groceries. As independent retailers a lot of what they
do is to help them compete with large grocery chains so they can
have that competitive advantage both in buying groceries and also
in all of the services that the grocer provides. It gives
retailers the opportunity to work in small communities similar to
Laurel. The majority of Associated retailers are located in towns
with single store owners.
In addition, they advise them on insurance, training, computer
services, and store development. Associated does between 12 and 15
new projects, such as Ricci's, per year.
He states that Ricci's have proven to be very good retailers.
Ricci's called Associated and told them that their business is
growing, and felt there was some opportunity for additional growth.
They wanted a market study done on the possibility of a larger
facility.
Associated came to Laurel and did a market study, that concluded
that there was a market for additional store space here. The
Ricci's want to offer more of a variety to their customers which
would also help them to be more competitive.
Associated came to Laurel to look for a location. They looked at
the location they were in now and discovered there were a couple of
things that prohibited them from adding onto the First Avenue store
location. Their building is still a viable asset and they would
have to tear down the existing store to build on what they need.
They need to be able to recoup that asset in order to have the
financial capability to build a new store.
They then went out and looked for other sites. Their market study
indicated that they needed to build a store between 25,000 and
28,000 square feet of new space. The building size now is 9,400
square feet.
There is criteria that needed to be following regarding a location
for a new store. It would need to be on a street where the traffic
is already established, and the accesses need to be done safely.
The depth of the block needed to put a new store in had to be 450'
to 550' in order to put in the parking that is needed. It is
essential to put the parking in the front of a store so that people
who shop at night can feel safe getting out in a lighted parking
area.
They also looked at a spot where there was some potential growth so
they could take advantage of that growth. They feel that the old
North School lot is a perfect spot for a new store.
They hired a civil engineer and laid out the site at the old North
School lot and found that it was a workable site. At that point
they made the offer to the school and applied for a zone change to
community commercial.
They put the receiving dock of the store on the side instead of in
the back of the building and have done the landscaping and berms to
accommodate the neigh_bors that are along the back of the store.
The majority of the accesses will be at the front of the store,
although there are some accesses provided on the side streets (Tth
and 8th Streets).
They had a phone survey done, through an independent study and Dr.
Craig wilson of MSU-B spoke regarding how the criteria is set up
for a phone survey.
A public opinion poll is a device for measuring public opinion
whereby a small number of individuals are interviewed for the
purpose of estimating the opinions of the population.
Mr. wilson went over the opinion poll (located in the information
booklet) and the results.
Reed Larson went over a couple more items.
He stated that the survey taken over the phone was as unbiased as
it could be. They did the phone survey to see what kind of support
they were going to get from the community.
They also had a petition in the store that favored the new store
and its location. They had 660 signatures.
The new store will be able to provide more services to the public,
a new increased tax base, and more jobs available to the public.
The Ricci's met with the neighborhood at one point and listened to
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their concerns. They do realize that there is going to be an
impact on the neighborhood and they are addressing those in the
placement of the store, landscaping, etc.
Bob Marvin, traffic engineer, spoke regarding the site.
He has not been able to do a traffic study, but they have looked at
the site plan and briefly reviewed it. He is ready to do the study
in the near future.
He has reviewed the possibility of left turn lanes, flashing
lights, and crosswalk curb balls. He feels that improvements can
be made to effect safer more efficient street traffic.
Cal questions Mr. Marvin as to when he is going to have the traffic
study done. Mr. Marvin states that he can do it in the near future
but he is not under contract yet.
Questions on curb cuts, traffic study,
for paying for any improvements to
determined what needs to be done.
and who would be responsible
the streets after it is
Reed Larson stated that there are nationwide statistics that say
grocery stores do better in residential areas because of the
convenience to the customers.
Cal questions how much of the store will be dedicated to groceries.
It is stated by Mr. Larson that 95% of the store will be groceries.
Question on access to the store. Do they plan to access off of 7th
and 8th Streets and First Avenue? Mr. larson states that will all
be determined in the design process with the city.
Question is raised as to whether or not there is a charge for the
marketing services that Mr. Larson is providing? He states that
they do charge for that analysis.
Question as to what their study indicates regarding the grocery
store services in Laurel? Mr. Larson states that there are many of
factors involved, but that Laurel does have a need for more store
services.
Question regarding whether or not Associated helped Ricci's with
the financing of the new store? Associated does help them find
financing through other means such as an SBA or bank loan. Banks
rely on the information being given them by private and independent
market analysis.
Doug Poehls spoke in favor of the Ricci's proposed zone change. He
states that the traffic is already there at the post office in the
wee hours of the morning. The teenagers already hang out in the
post office parking lot in the evenings. Snow is dumped into the
parking lot at the wee hours of the morning during the winter
months which causes noise. He suggests the city council support
the Ricci's new venture.
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Mary Ann Catchpole of Nature's Corners spoke in support. She
doesn't feel the Ricci's need to be penalized for having a
successful business. Growth is essential for businesses. The
Ricci's are an asset to Laurel. There would be an enhancement of
First Avenue with a new store. It would provide tax revenue and
employment benefits. She feels the council should support Laurel,
not Billings businesses.
Ed Bayne spoke in support. The new store would be good for Laurel.
People want it. Tax benefits. Town needs it. The Ricci's are
good people.
Leslie Erwin spoke in support. The convenience of the location of
the store and the competitive prices to a working mother makes
sense. There is too much traffic around Jan's IGA. This would
make that congestion less. It's a good option for high school and
middle school kids for lunch, which could contribute to less of
them going off campus in vehicles.
Merle Cherry spoke in support. He pointed out that there is a
large piece of concrete in that lot that may inhibit residential
homes from being built there. He spoke to local realtors regarding
what the lot could be used for. It's limited. Residential homes,
if put there would probably be low income due to the location and
amount it would take to develop. First Avenue is not a great place
to sell residential property. Revenue for Laurel would be more
beneficial for commercial zone than for residential zone. Ricci's
would be an asset to First Avenue.
Tracy Tobel spoke in support. He is the produce manager of Ricci's
and he hears customers speaking regarding the need of a new store.
They are in favor of it. He feels the north school lot would be a
good location.
Angela Gudgell spoke in favor. She works at Ricci's and hears on
a daily basis by her customers as to how a larger store is needed
for a better variety of food and services.
Bruce Edwards spoke in favor. He feels the north school lot is an
eyesore the way it is. The school has to spend money each year to
remove snow off of the surrounding sidewalks. The money that is
made off of the sale of the lot will go towards a much needed new
school or expansion of a school. He feels it would be good to have
the Ricci's store at the north school lot.
Ed George spoke in support. He is a local businessman. He lives
on the north end of Laurel and feels it would be a benefit to the
people that live in the north end to have a grocery store near by.
It would also make Jan's prices more competitive. As towns grow
zoning changes need to be made to help support future growth. In
his opinion Laurel is growing north.
OpDonents:
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Diana Walker spoke on behalf of the people within the 300 foot
radius of the proposed zone change.
They are not questioning the character of the Ricci's but feel that
the store does not belong in the area proposed.
She stated that they have talked to legal counsel and they know
that they have other options available if this zone change does go
through.
She states that the City has a zoning ordinance. The
proposal falls under spot zoning laws, which is illegal.
the definition of spot zoning.
Ricci's
She read
She states a case of spot zoning that was taken to court in Great
Falls. It was a somewhat similar case of a shopping mall wanting
to be placed in a residential area. The case was won by the
neighborhood.
She brought up the grandfather clause on commercial property.
She states that the Post Office was put in without public consent
because the government ran roughshod over the city council and
public opinion to put the post office where it is now.
She states that there is commercial property throughout Laurel that
is not being used commercially.
She talked about the need to do a traffic study due to the large
volume of children that go to the swim pool, ball parks, schools
and catholic church. The increased amount of traffic would be a
danger to children.
She spoke on the crime potential once the store was in place.
According to statistics reported in the Laurel Outlook the area on
First Avenue has the least amount of crime. She feels this will
change if the store gets put in.
She pointed out that the traffic that goes into Billings via the
back roads should not be figured into the traffic count, because it
is not valid.
She called several insurance companies in the surrounding area and
was told that they will not insure homes within 40' of a commercial
zone.
She called several realtors in the area. They stated that property
values tend to go down on residential homes located in commercial
areas.
She stated that growth factors in Miles City, Livingston and other
small towns generally go towards the interstates, not towards the
residential parts of towns.
She then read a list of how long each resident with the 300
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area have lived in their homes. She states that these people have
raised their families here, supported the community for many years,
and they deserve some consideration in this matter.
She feels that this is the first offer the school has received on
this piece of property and they need to consider other options
that would not make such an impact on the residential neighborhood.
She feels that the people that signed the petition in Ricci's would
support a new store no matter where it is placed in Laurel. She
pointed out that there were quite a few out of town people that
signed the petition.
She spoke regarding the new signs that would have to be placed if
the store was placed on First Avenue. The taxpayers would be
paying for those new signs.
Bob King spoke in opposition. Me feels that if the store is
allowed to go in the proposed area there would be a precedence
being set for other businesses. Me would like to see a bigger
store, but not in the area proposed. He feels it would not be
compatible to the residential area.
Polly VanNice spoke in opposition. She cited the Ricci's as being
good people and that this should not be taken as a personal issue
against them. She feels that a new store would be beneficial as
far as taxes and employment go, but not at the proposed location.
She commented regarding the issue of lighting pollution that this
would cause and the hours at the store could possibly get longer as
they get more business. She stated what businessman wouldn't jump
at a piece of property at a great price and in a great location.
Cathy Baumgardner spoke in opposition. She feels there are options
available in other parts of town. Allowing Ricci's to be in the
area proposed would open it up to other commercial businesses. She
states that there is also no guarantee that, if zoned as community
commercial it will stay as a grocery store.
Greg VanBerg spoke in opposition. Me owns the lot where A Haus of
Realty used to be, which will put him close to the proposed loading
dock. His concern is the zoning in general. If they put in the
commercial zone they will limit what they can do. He put in for a
home occupation to the planning board and city council awhile back
to sell antique salt and pepper shakers and to do some accounting
out of his home. The board was concerned with the amount of
traffic he would cause in the area. He sees a real shift in what
the city wants to do. He wants the board to look at the future of
all concerned, not just one business.
Mike Zuhoski spoke in opposition. Me states that the biggest
majority of property owners in the area are senior citizens. They
all bought their homes in a quiet neighborhood, and they want to
see it stay that way. Me bought there because of the location to
the schools and the peacefulness of the neighborhood.
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Question on if the boards wants to take a vote on who in the
audience is for or against the proposal. Cal states that the board
has received letters of protest and it isn't necessary to take a
vote.
After a few moments Cal asked who was for the proposal and about
1/2 of the people present put up their hands. Me then asked who
was against the proposal and the other 1/2 of the audience put up
their hands.
Motion by Miles Walton, seconded by Clarence Foos, to close
the public hearing. Motion carried 7--0.
Cal went through the points of consideration under the State of
Montana code 76-2~304 (see attached). He then explained that the
planning board and the city must take these points into
consideration.
Cal states that what we have before the board tonight is a request
for a zone change for a presently public zone to a community
commercial zone. There is an allowance for it in the city zoning
ordinance.
Cal read the community commercial definition from the code book.
Ziggy; brought up 2 issues that he feels need to be addressed: 1)
the board needs to study the comprehensive plan; and, 2) a
traffic study needs to be completed and studied.
Gerald also brought up a concern with additional traffic.
Donna feels we need to study the comprehensive plan and possibly
make changes.
Miles feels that the traffic is going to pick up drastically. How
much isn't so much the concern here. That could be studied
indefinitely. There is going to be more traffic, no doubt. But a
decision needs to be made on this.
Gerald states that the makeup of the traffic is going to change.
Donna states that the proposal is going to change the complexity of
the whole residential area.
Miles states that he has gotten numerous phone calls, and none of
the calls were in favor of the proposal. He states that the
proposal submitted by Ricci's was a good one that answered many of
the concerns, but the traffic concern was not answered.
Cal states that his recommendation and this boards recommendation
is only a recommendation to the city council. The council makes
the final decision.
Cal recommends that this proposal be denied on the basis of spot
zoning. He is not comfortable with the legal aspects of changing
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the zoning and does not feel he can confidently advise the council
on those aspects that have been established in the courts around
the United States.
From the start of this project Cal felt that the most fundamental
thing that Ricci's needed to prove was that this project will be
beneficial to the City of Laurel as a whole. The benefits that
have been pointed out are benefits that will occur in any area of
Laurel, such as taxes and employment.
There is also no provision in the comprehensive plan for sticking
a commercial node half way up First Avenue. Although the plan was
made a long time ago, it hasn't been changed because there has been
no need to, until now. We do need to look at the comprehensive
plan now, however, because all commercial ventures seem to be going
south of the tracks.
There is no community commercial zoning in the area where they want
to place the zone now. This is considered conflicting land use.
This is an introduction of a strong commercial use in the middle of
a residential area.
There is no buffer zone provided between an established residential
neighborhood and what would suddenly be community commercial.
Cal recommends to the City Council that if they do choose to
approve this zone change that two things should go hand in hand
with that approval:
1)
Ricci's prepare a site plan that is binding on the city
and themselves for this area and a buffer zone to protect
the interest of that neighborhood to the maximum extent
possible. And that things like access be carefully
worked out in a satisfactory compromise.
2)
That the traffic study be done and that the Ricci's
provide for that traffic study and it be adhered to. And
the cost of any needed improvements be pro-rated against
the new establishment.
Gerald Shay complimented all those who spoke at the public hearing.
It was done in an orderly and respectable manner.
Motion by Miles Walton, seconded by Donna Kilpatrick, that the
Planning Board recommend denial of the Ricci's zone change from
public to community commercial to the city council, with the above
2 stipulations considered if the city council were to approve the
zone change. Motion was carried by a unanimous vote of 7--0.
Preliminary Plat - Mossmain
This is out of the city limits. It's a breakdown of 5 lots. There
will be an easement, not a road. He wanted to see adjacent
property owners listed on the plat, and they complied. The utility
companies have asked for a 16' easement along lots 2 & 5.
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Cal recommends approval.
Motion by Gerald Shay, seconded by Donna Kilpatrick, to
recommend approval to the county commissioners. Motion carried 7--
0.
Motion by Donna Kilpatrick, seconded by Miles Walton, to
adjourn the meeting. Motion carried 7--0.
The meeting was adjourned at 9:15 p.m.
Respectfully submitted,
Cheryll Lund, Secretary
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FIRE JAMB/POLICE
215 W. 1ST ST.
PHONE: 628-8737
628-4641
CITY HALL
I15 W. 1ST ST.
PHONE: 628-8791
FAX: 628-2241
City of Laurel
P.O. BOX 10
LAUREL, MONTANA 59044
SEPTEMBER 11, 1997
PLANNING BD.
DEPARTMENT
NOTICE OF PLANNING BOARD RECOMMENDATION TO LAUREL CITY COUNCIL
WHEREAS, VINCENT AND DEBBIE RICCI having petitioned for
a zone designation of Community Commercial on the
following described property:
First Avenue Subdivision, S9, T2S, R24E,
P.M.M., Yellowstone CounTy, Montana, more
specifically Block 1, Lots 1-20 (North School
Lot}; and
WHEREAS, au a meeting of the Laurel-Yellowstone City-
County Planning Board held on September 11, 1997, and
after public notice and a Public Hearing having been
held, the Board recommends to the Laurel City Council
that the petition for Community Commercial zone be
denied.
John Hawley Smith, Chairman
pub. 2t: 9/17 & 9/24/97
City of Laurel is an EEO Employer