HomeMy WebLinkAboutPublic Works Committee Minutes 10.12.2004Members Present:
Others Present:
MINUTES
PUBLIC WORKS COM2MITTEE
OCTOBER 12, 2004 5:00 PM
COUNCIL CHAMBERS
Mark Mace
Lorraine Craig
John Oakes
Dave Siljestrom
Smokey Staudinger
Ken Olson
Cheryll Lund
Sam Painter
Audience (see attached list)
The minutes of the September meeting were approved. Motion carried.
Park Leases Discussion
The Public Works committee was asked, by the City Council to review the Park leases and uses of the
parks by different organizations and to make recommendations on what should be added or taken out of
the leases.
The Public Works committee appointed a sub-committee to study the leases more in-depth. The sub-
committee was given some input and direction from the City Attorney's office as to what they should be
looking at. The sub-committee then came back to the Public Works committee with a list of items that
they felt should be discussed by the entire Public Works committee before making recommendations to
the City Council.
The sub-committee, upon the Public Works Committee's recommendation, planned to get their
questions and concerns in order before conferring with the individual organizations. The commktee all
agreed that the organizations should, and would, have input. Unfortunately the Laurel Outlook did an
article, using the September committee minutes, before the organizations could be invited to any
meetings. Facts and information that the Laurel Outlook gathered from the September committee
minutes did not give a good overview of the discussions that have gone on, by the committee, for the
past 4 months.
Lorraine Craig read a letter to the committee regarding the information she found out about the different
organizations that she had researched (see attached).
Smokey Staudinger stated that the Rod and Gun Club paid a fire insurance bill to the City from 1988 to
1999. The only reason they quit paying it was because the city didn't send them a bill.
Ernie Freund spoke with concerns on the article in the Outlook. His concerns were: that the
organizations look bad to the public due to the article in the Outlook, and he spoke about the
accomplishments of the organizations and how much they contribute to the city.
that the rifle range is the rifle club's; the club is strapped for money; the lessee' should be in charge of
the club, not the city entity.
Howard Guenthner, American Legion, the Nez Pearce Indians crossed over the river at the Riverside
Park site; it was a prison camp; it has historical value; in 2002 the city did a fire inspect and had a list of
things to correct, they did that; they maintain the yard; maintain the building; and there are very few
times do they rent it out.
Steve Krum, Laurel Rifle Club, questioned Dave Siljestrom's comment in the paper about the Rifle Club
relocating.
Dave Siljestrom stated that there was a problem this past summer at the park regarding shooting guns
around the campers. Dave stated that he made no reference that the gun club or any of its members were
involved. Dave explained that the Council has given the committee directions to look at the lease. The
position of the committee is not to relocate any club.
Mark Mace stated that the Rifle Club in Billings has had to be relocated due to the growth around the
club and the safety of the homeowners.
Howard Guenthner mentioned there are about 7 trailer spots in Riverside Park and wonders if the city
could profit for it; he also mentioned the loss the the Caretaker at the Park.
Phyllis Bromgard, Oktoberfest, are campers going to have to pay to camp at the park during
Oktoberfest: there was a sign up that said the park was closed; she showed a copy of the contact letter to
the city; a lot of the people coming for Oktobeffest didn't stay because they couldn't camp at the park.
Mark Mace stated that they need to give the city a contact person's name if the Oktoberfest is going to
be at Riverside Park every year. He appreciates the efforts put into the Oktoberfest.
Ernie Freund, Laurel Rod and Gun, he is down at the park a lot and he has seen more vandalism since
there has been no Caretaker; he also has people asking him if they can camp in the park after the
campground has been closed; he said that Gene Tuka told him he got $14,000 per summer at the park.
Mark thanked Ernie for the time he puts into Riverside Park.
Tom Canape, Laurel Rod and Gun, suggested putting a box at the park for campers to pay at. (Note: this
was done all summer when there was no caretaker)
Grog Vanberg, Legion Baseball, stated that there are many times when the park shelter is rented and the
bathrooms have not been open and he is asked to unlock them.
Dave Siljestrom spoke regarding the installation of water meters. He does not believe there is a need to
charge the clubs for hand washing, making coffee, etc. But, he feels that there should be an accounting
of how much water is being used for the Water Office's benefit and for an accounting in case there
could be a leak. As far as irrigation water is concerned because it is a city park the city should be paying
for irrigation.
Dave Siljestrom, once again, stated that the committee had plans to invite the clubs, one by one, to a
meeting. The committee was planning to meet one more time, before inviting the clubs, to get input
from all of the committee members. It was unfortunate that the paper printed what it did and didn't take
information from the minutes of the committee discussion over the past 4 months.
Mark Mace thanked everyone for coming to the meeting. He asked if there was anyone interested in
being on the committee, and if so to leave his or her name with him.
The meeting was adjourned at 6:10 pm.
Respectfully submitted,
Cheryll Lund, Secretary
ROD& GUN CLUB
WATER METERS: A water meter for water use inside the buildings is a logical step.
Water used to irrigate landscaping should be excluded.
ELECTRIC BILLS: Laurel Rod & Gun Club pays for their own electricity.
1. Water previously addressed
2. Good tenants should not fear losing their lease every three years. This would not
foster good care taking or motivate building improvements.
3. Details needed for a thorough and complete lease is a logical step.
4. Laurel R & G currently has liability insurance for $1,000,000.00.
5. Laurel R & G has provided lists of improvements to previous committees. It is
unclear what is being requested.
6. Subleasing: 'City' being who? The facility is rented with several months' notice,
which would not pose a problem. At other times, persons request to rent it with little
notice. Requiring the city's permission and being unable to obtain it may cause a
lost rental. City being given 25: Rental fees are used to clean the building before
and after rentals (time and supplies), electricity, gas, toilet paper, light bulbs,
building maintenance, lawn care (mowers, etc.)
7. Whatever
8. It is logical that the annual rent should be raised: however, basing it on property
value may be unrealistic. The City has been unable to find a caretaker for the
Riverside Park even taking into account a salary and housing as incentive. Who will
care for the buildings and park if you have no tenants that can afford to rent them?
Will it become a Transient Village without a permanent tenant to care for it?
9. A summary of building and land use could certainly be provided and attached to the
lease.
10. Not applicable to Laurel Rod and Gun.
11. Providing information to include club president and officers as well as copies of
insurance policies is a logical step.
Laurel Rifle Clubs Response to:
"City wants to Charge Clubs for Park use"
1. Response to 3rd paragraph: Buildings currently being leased in Riverside Park are leased
for $1 a year and the tenants aren't billed for water and sewer use. The electricity
bills for the buildings are also paid by the city.
The Laurel Rifle Club has not had a signed lease since the 30® day of November, 1997.
The clubs at Riverside Park have patiently waited for new leases. The last lease was a five year
lease signed in 1992. True: there is no bill for water, which this club uses very little water inside
its shooting range and the outdoor range is never irrigated. The cost to install a meter would
probably be far greater than the amount money made based on metered water usage. The water
inside the Rifle club is only used in the restroom facilities inside the clubhouse. The Laurel Rifle
Club would be more than happy to pay for water used, we have never been asked. As far as
sewer, we have a septic tank, which when pumped, the club takes care of the expense. The tank
for the Caretakers house was accidentally collapsed by city equipment after the caretaker no
longer lived in house and the city took over care of the two Caretaker buildings, the house has
since fallen into ii1 repair. As far as electricity, the city has never paid for any of the
electricity/gas bills for the Laurel Rifle Club, this is just total mis-information. As stated in
Editorial of Laurel Outlook dated Wednesday, September 29, 2004 "Instead of first sitting down
with the various organizations and discussing the policies face to face, city hall is consulting with
attorneys. Too bad. The club members are our friends and neighbors and deserved to be included
in discussions fi'om the get go." If the committee would have followed this editorials advice, this
ntis-information would never have been printed.
2. Response to 4~' paragraph: Committee members pointed out that the public is subsidizing
the buildings but can't use them unless they rent them from the different clubs.
As far as Laurel Rifle clubhouse is concerned, the building is never rented out, it is an
Indoor shooting range and its use is solely intended for this. The Indoor range as it is now was
built by members of the Laurel Rifle Club. The two ends of the 200 foot building were built by
WPA in the 30's, in 1953 these two buildings were connected by members of the Laurel RLfle club
which is a significant part of the current building. The outdoor range was built by and is
maintained by the Laurel Rifle Club members. Many members oftbe cornmtmity are able to use
these outdoor facilities, from a place to walk their dogs, Charitable and Political fund raising
events, Laurel City Fireman setting offfireworks, (when members are not.shooting on the range),
Big Sky State Games, Hunters Safety training-field course on outdoor range and marksmanship in
the Indoor range, City Police Officers regularly qualifying (at no cost to the city), quali .lying of
surrounding communities Officers(at no cost to the city and possibly income paid to the city from
these conn~anities) and Homeland Security Officers qualify-Border Patrol,(at no cost to the city,
possible income to the city from the government). The Montana Highway patrol used to buy
memberships for each of their officers so they could qualify regularly on the outdoor range, but
have built the own range between Laurel and Billings. Many of these participants corning to our
community spend money in Laurel. Shooting clubs have to be regulated by the membership for
public safety and memberships in this club have always be available. All fees charged for events at
the Laurel Rifle Club are used to cover liability and maintenance expenses.
when everything is taken into consideration~ The last part of this statement sounds as if someone
is looking to sell it offto the benefit ora private organization and then, we all lose. People are
asking members flit is true the park is up for sale!! The Caretakers house between the indoor and
outdoor ranges of the Laurel Rifle club is falling apart, if the caretaker system was reinstated this
house could be brought back to a liveable condition, city would have people constantly
rnalr~taining and watching parking, chance of survival for the park for every ones benefit increases
significantly and there would be a direct financial gain to the taxpayers.
9. The city should know who is using the buildings and/or land and how they are
using the property. The city council should decide if the use is appropriate or not. Not sure
what this is about, but we are a shooting club and everything we do that pertains to club activities
should not have to be run by the council. We have donated the use of our outdoor range to other
clubs for membersb, ip and charity drives, if this is what this is about we would be happy to bring it
to the city council. But, based on our latest leases, everything we have done fails within the intent
of the leases, no activity ever exceeded 3 days. We would think the city knows the basic use of
most of the clubs, the clubs all have a long history at Riverside Park.
10. The age of kids working in the Thompson Park concessions should be controlled
because of liability issues. Does not pertain to Riverside.
11. A list of club directors should be given to the city with emergency contact
infomation. Insurance policy renewal papers should also be provided to the city on an
annual basis. We have always given contact numbers to the caretaker at the park and when the
city asked for an increase in our liability insurance we immediately increased the insurance and
gave the city a copy, the only time a copy was asked for. Supplying the city with contact numbers
and proof of liability insurance on an annual basis could be done mmually during the proposed
annual lease reviews.