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HomeMy WebLinkAboutCity/County Planning Board Minutes 11.01.2001MINUTES LAUREL CITY-COUNTY PLANNING NOVEMBER 1, 2001 7:00 PM COUNCIL CHAMBERS MEMBERS PRESENT: Gerald Shay, Chairman Ziggy Ziegler, County Rep. Bud Johnson, City Rep. Laurel Haggart, City Rep. Tom Robertus, County Rep. Clarence Foos, County Rep. Kay Stevenson, City Rep. Ed Thurner, City Rep. (arrived at 7:12 pm) OTHERS PRESENT: Cal Cumin, City Planner Cheryll Lund, City Secretary The minutes of October 4, 2001 were reviewed and approved. The Planning Boazd was closed and the Zoning Commission was opened to hold the following public hearing: LITTLE DUDE RANCHETTES ZONE CHANGE PUBLIC HEARING: Tom Llewellyn of Yellowstone Group Realtors presented the proposal for the zone change for Little Dude Ranchettes. The proposal is to change the zone from Suburban Residential to Residential Tracts to cut the lot sizes down to between 1.2 to 5.3 acres. This would mean there would be 29 residential lots within the subdivision. OPPONENTS: Bill Rodier, 2807 Buffalo Horn Drive, spoke. He feels that the water study was not done correctly. He also wondered why the people within Montana Meadows Subdivision did not receive a letter in regards to this zone change proposal since, in his opinion, it will impact them. Matt Johnstone, 1447 W. Ramshorn, spoke. He thouglrt that the Planning Boazd, at the previous heazing for the proposed zone change for this subdivision, had put in a stipulation that the groundwater be studied at a test well for at least one yeaz before a groundwater study was done. The board had indicated that they wanted to see how the water table was during a114 seasons of the year. He also stated that he inquired about buying one of the 5-acre lots in Little Dude Ranchettes after the last zone change was denied and was told they were taken off of the mazket before July of 2000. Al Hicks, 2621 S. Ramshom, spoke. He owns Pro Pump and Equipment, which is a well drilling business. He has read the groundwater study done by Aquaneering and has many concerns and questions about how that study was done. In his opinion it is not based on the correct facts needed to do an accurate review. He would like to see the raw data submitted to the Bureau of Mine's to have them do a groundwater study. He feels that would be a more accurate study. Cal asked Al if he would be willing to put his concerns in writing and get them to Cheryll as soon as possible. Al stated he would. Cal asked him to do so in the near future so he can have the study analyzed before the next board meeting. Lila Carpenter, 1303 Deerhorn Drive spoke. She is concerned with the amount of traffic this subdivision would bring in. She states that the new Shiloh Overpass has impact on traffic in that area. She showed several pictures she took when the Baptist church had a function that filled their pazking lot and the overflow cars parking on Seitz Ronan created a problem. She states that it is quite common for them to have functions large enough to overflow the parking lot. She feels that if the new zoning was to go into effect, allowing more residents, it will make the traffic problem even worse. Question was asked as to how often she has seen the church pazking lot overflow? She stated that she has taken pictures 3 times and there were approximately 3-4 other times that it happened. Janet Ronan, owner of the 220 acres north of the proposed subdivision, spoke. She feels that the traffic has gotten heavier over the years due to Little Tykes Academy and the Baptist church. She feels that the new subdivision could handle the 5-acre lots, but not the proposed smaller lots. They plan to keep their 220 acres as farmland for as long as they can. Susanne Nelson, 1237 Deerhorn Drive spoke. Her biggest concern is the traffic. She states that she had a friend that looked into buying one of the 5-acre lots in Little Dude Ranchettes but the subdivision covenants were too strict. John VanAken, 2606 Pronghorn, spoke. His main concern is the water and traffic. He stated that the 70-mile hour speed limit on the lughway is ridiculous. Lynn Jordan, 1219 Deerhorn Drive spoke. His concern is the water and the increased traffic. If they lose the ability to water their lawns it will take the value of their homes down. Matt Johnstone, 1447 spoke. He needs 720 gallons a day in the summer to imgate his lawn. He assumes that everyone else in the subdivision uses the same amount. Who will reimburse the residents in the Montana Meadow subdivision when they have to lower their wells. It will be a substantial financial impact on everyone. REBUTTAL: Mr. Llewellyn stated that the number of lots will be 29, not 50 as stated by an audience member. He doesn't remember any requirement during the last proposed zone change regarding monitoring a well for a year. He used professionals far the groundwater study that was done. He has to rely on the experts. He states that the water flow is coming from the northwest and the decline in the water is probably coming from the new homes that are being built to the west, not the east. The flow comes from the northwest and goes to the southeast. He has worked with the County Commissioners, City of Billings, City of Laurel, and various other entities in regards to urban sprawl, water issues, and many other issues. They have had experts from everywhere working with them on these issues to help solve them. He realizes that people do not like change, but it is going to happen. People are going to have to conform. Just because the Baptist church overflows once a month doesn't mean it is a bad thing, it is just something that everyone has to deal with when it happens. He states that the scientific data on the water is now in place. lust because some people don't like what it says doesn't mean it is wrong. A yeaz ago there was no scientific data to go off of. He states that he doesn't like the 70-mile an hour speed limit on the highways either. He and his wife live along a stretch of road with the same speed limit. They complained about it to the right person and eventually something was done about it. The public hearing was closed. DISCUSSION: Ed Thurner stated that it should be tlvs boazds policy that no subdivision should be approved unless they come equipped with city water and sewer. These subdivisions make a big impact on our schools. He is going to vote against this subdivision. We have enough homes in that area that are running on septic tanks and wells already. At some point we have to decide what kind of housing density we want to have. He would vote against it because of that density and the problems people have with their wells and septic tanks. Eventually that subdivision will be a part of Laurel and the taxpayers are going to have to pick up the slack when the sewage starts seeping out of the hillside. Clazence Foos asked which well was pumping at 100 gpm? The wells on lots 5 and 2. Tom Robertus states that he appreciated the statements made by AI Hicks in regards to the groundwater study done by Roger Perkins. The questions brought up by Al made him question the validity of the water study. Cal recommends that this application be tabled until the December meeting, due to the questions that have been brought up on the groundwater study by Mr. Hicks. This will allow Mr. Hicks to provide written critique, allow his critique to be reviewed by state water agencies, and the results of all be gotten to the Planning Boazd so they can review it. Motion by Bud Johnson, second by Ziggy Ziegler, to table the zone change for Little Dude Ranchettes until the December 6, 2001 meeting. Motion carried 6-1 with Ed Thumer voting "No". Cal requested the December boazd meeting be changed from December 6`~' to December li`p' Motion by Bud Johnson, second by Ziggy Ziegler, to amend the motion to the December 13, 2001, meeting. Motion carried 6-1 with Ed Thumer voting "No". PUBLIC FEARING -LITTLE DUDE RANCHETTES -PRELIMINARY PLAT: Mr. Llewelyn spoke regarding the preliminary plat application. There will be 291ots that will be between 1.2 to 5 acres in size. Each lot will have it's own water and septic service. The perk tests will be done by DEQ. The existing utility easements will have to be moved and the developer will do that in conformance with utility company requirements. OPPONENTS: Al Hicks spoke regarding the water issue. He states that 1.2 acre lots require 2 wells to properly service both the house and irrigation water. This makes the water issue even more important because every lot is at least 1.2 acres. So 58 wells will have to be drilled, not 29. Matt Johnstone asked if there would be an environmental impact done on the subdivision? Cal stated that there was already an environmental impact study done on the subdivision when it was first proposed. Matt then asked if another one needed to be done because the proposal is for more lots than originally requested? He would like to see a new one done. Cal stated that we have only asked for new information where there aze questions-mainly in groundwater supply. If they feel they need more information they will ask for a new one. Bill Rodier spoke. He wanted the board to use their influence with MDOT to get the intersection at Seitz Ronan safer. Cal states that no one has any influence with the MDOT. Unfortunately the MDOT calculates the safety of intersections based on how many accidents have happened at a particular accident. Jon VanAken spoke. He questioned the flow of the water, and how adding more people to the proposed subdivision will cause water problems. REBUTTAL: Mr. Llewellyn states that this is a straightforward subdivision, with no more issues than any other subdivision. The public heazing was closed. Laurel Haggart is concerned with curb/gutter/lighting issues. She feels that should be done now because eventually this subdivision will be in the city limits. Cal stated that the owner's have signed a waiver stating they will not protest curb/gutter/lighting in the future. 4 Ed Thurner stated that a waiver of protest is something property owners are often unaware of at closing, and they often try and get out of the waiver later. He feels that a waiver is a poor way of getting out of putting in curb/gutter/lighting at the time the land is developed. Cal states that state Supreme Court has recently ruled in favor of waivers of protest. The preliminazy plat requires no vote at tonight's meeting, as it cannot be done unless the zone change is approved. The chairman signed the bill for Cal's services far $3375. The amount has already been approved through the budget. The board elected Clarence Foos, as Vice-Chairman. Ed Thumer read a letter that he wrote to the board and City Council into the minutes (see attached). Motion by Laurel Haggart, second by Ziggy Ziegler to adjourn the meeting. Meeting adjourned at 8:25 pm. Sincerely, c~..~~~ ~t~o Cheryll Lund, Secretary Lawel -Yellowstone City -County Planning Board Laurel, MT 59044 November 1, 2001 Because of unsupervised growth and lack of planning, our community has had to pay for problems that could have been prevented. Laurel's related problems are too many to list. However, here are some examples. A nonadjacent trailer court is annexed East of town that causes a disproportionate amount of the police and fire calls, and school ewollment without corresponding taxes paid to the City and school. This is a City where the streets aze a mess because the streets were never paid for by developers or the people owning land. This is a City where taxpayers have lazge fee increases to pay for water and sewer because the real cost of a subdivision was not realized by the developer. Laurel is a City where it is unsafe to walk because sidewalks and pedestrian traffic was not considered in subdivisions and developments. The developers did not have to realize the real impact their subdivision on landowners and the community. I urge the board, starting with now, to adopt the following policy. In addition to the standard requirements the board should only approve subdivisions, zone changes, and plats after the developer's performance bond has been received or completion of the following. 1. City engineer approved city sanitary sewer, storm sewer and water system. 2. Traffic impact study and report. 3. Survey and report of school impact. 4. Written comments by school officials. 5. Survey and report of fire department and police department impact. 6. Written comments by fire chief and police chief. 7. Written comments by effected City, County and State departments. What kind of Community do you want Laurel to be? We need to start now to build the safe, desirable, Community people want to live in. 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