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HomeMy WebLinkAboutSpecial City Council Minutes 04.16.1980was Minutes of the City Council of Laurel April 16, 1980 A special meeting of the City Couneil of the City of Laurel, Montana, held in the Council Chambers and called to order by Mayor Larry D. The purpose of this meeting was Bill Brennan Donald Meyers Terry Fink Ervin Metzger Herman, at 7:04 p.m., on April 16, 1980. a hearing on the proposed garbage rates. COUNCIL MEMBERS PRESENT: Albert Ehrlick Duane Behm COUNCIL MEMBERS ABSENT: Harold Burns Susan Carter This being the time and place advertised~ a public hearing was held on the proposed garbage rates effective for 1980. Alderman Duane Behm, Garbage Committee Chairman, presented his study and the new proposed rate structure. The new rate would be assessed beginning January l, 1980, but due to the delay in getting the rates set, the total annual charge would be spread out over the remaining months of the year. Residential = $60.00 per year @ $5.00 a month. Duplex = $60.00 per year per unit @ $5.00 a month per unit. Apartments and trailer courts, 3 or more units = $60.00 per year for the first unit ~ $5.00 per month and $54.00 per year for each additional unit ~ $4.50 a month. Business - used residential rate as a minimum. This would be a small in- surance office, barber shop, beauty shop, and others similarly which would fall under the minimum rate. Other businesses went according to the usage by the business and this was based on a study conducted by Duane Behm for a week on how full the containers were in the dif- ferent areas of town behind the businesses and how often they needed pickups, etc. We have approximately 3.4 families per 300 gal. containers in the residential area. We used the figure of 3 families per container to deter- mine that each container generated $180.00 in revenue per year for twice a week pickup. This formula was used in trying to determine a rate for a business. If you have one 300 gal. container by your business with twice a week pickup it would be $180.00 a year. If you have one 300 gal. container with 6 times a week pickup, you would take $180.00 times 3, which would be $540.00 per year. If you had in excess of one container with 6 times a week pickup, it would be $540.00 times the number of containers used at a particular business. Example: 5 containers, 6 times a week pickup would be $540.00 X 5 = $2,700.00 per year. This is what the committee used as a basis for determining business rates. Some of the businesses are sharing containers and this was taken into consideration when the proposed rates were set up for each business. MAYOR HERMAN - a point of information - the figures that we have here are not a set figure and can be adjusted according to the usage. page 2 Minutes of the City Council of Laurel ALDERMAN BEHM - the figures that we have here were set according to the number of containers that were in use during the week I made the study. If a business felt that they could get by with fewer containers and fewer pickups, we could adjust the rate. But we also felt that if a business calls and has one of the containers picked up and wants to go on twice a week pickup, that is just what he is going to be getting. He will get what is being paid for;and we also feel that if this is done and garbage is stored up, when the truck comes and empties the container which is full and then starts filling it up again and then wants to get it emptied right away, then he will be charged another rate, because that is more than one container and the rate that is being paid. Mike Sankovich - how about if they do not empty the container the first time through? We sit out there with buggies so then we have to put it into the container. Are you going to charge more? We are missed on certain days. If our delivery truck is there from the warehouse on Monday mornings, the garbage truck driver will not go through the area. DUANE BEHM - Mike, the week I rode with him there was 2 or 3 mornings when there were trucks unloading behind your store. He could not get in and he said that he went back later on that sfterncon. I did not stay with the driver all day so I can not say that is a fact for sure. MIKE SANKOVICH - there could be as high as 2 or 3 days garbage sitting there and the containers are not emptied. Here we have 30, 40, or 50 buggies waiting for him. Then the driver himself gets belligerent because he has to wait until we empty the buggies. DUANE BEHM - If he is not making the pickups on the days that are designated, you call Dick Metzger and let him know or call Albert Ehrlick or myself and we will get in contact with Dick. ©UESTION FROM THE AUDIENCE On the list that has been proposed, are all businesses rated on a 6 day a week pickup? DUANE BEHM - Yes, most of them are on the route for a 6 day a week pickup. A lot of them the driver will use a hook and lift the lid of the container. If it is not half full or more, he will not stop the truck to empty it. TIM ZENT Is there an ordinance on the books about littering if their garbage becomes a problem? Answer: Yes. RUTH THURNER - I was glad to hear that you will adjust the rate. The Thurner Apartments has 12 u~its and now 3 more residences that have been brought into the city, and we have 2 containers for 15 families. I think we manage pretty well because we have garbage disposals in the apartments. The 3 new families that have been brought into the city are filling the one container, but there are times when we could use another container. We have asked for it for the past 3 years and have not received one. But if you will adjust accordingly, I think this would help. A question regarding private dwellings - what about occasional cleanup? You have a pickup load of branches, etc., can you just drive them out to the landfill and dump them? Answer: Yes, no charge to city residents. What is to stop a business from not using garbage containers and dumping their own container at the landfill? MAYOR HERMAN - I think you will find to make any garbage system work, most cities make it mandatory to have some type of collection. Question: Is it mandatory here? Answer: Yes, it would be in this case. page Minutes of the City Council of Laurel DON I called this one outfit that hauls to Billings and they would put a big eontainer baek of my store and charge me $40.00 a load. MAYOR HERMAN - The thing is too. It is the Public Servioe Commission. They can not come into the city itself. DON In other words we are forced to this anyway. MAYOR HERMAN - Yes, unless we give them permission to do so. DON - What about when they dump my containers and they spill garbage all over. Do I have to piok up my. litter for $2,700.00 a year? Answer: Yes. DUANE BEHM - I did not see any garbage spilling out of the hopper the days I rode with him, but I suppose there is that possibility if the wind is blowing. REPRESENTATIVE FROM YELLOWSTONE SANITATION SERVICE IN BILLINGS - You might be wrong on that Public Service Commission permit deal. We can operate anywhere in Yellowstone County. MAYOR HERMAN , As long as you are not infringing upon municipal services that are already there. If you want to do some extra services over and above the city, I do not see anything wrong with that. MIKE SANKOVICH - How much are you charging the apartments that are using my containers? DUANE BEHM - The apartments are charged on the multi-unit rate, which is $60.00 a year for the first unit and $54.00 a year for each additional unit. We went to a lessor rate on a multi-family unit because we felt a single family unit and even with a duplex unit there will be more yard garbage at certain times of the year going into that container. MIKE SANKOVICH - The city is hauling less garbage from a grocery store than it was 10 years ago. DUANE BEHM - This may be Mike. I did not study the garbage situation at all at that time. Maybe you do not need the 5 containers. If you took more time and cut the boxes up, you might get by with 2 or B. MIKE SANKOVICH - Actually if the garbage was picked up on Tuesday, Thursday, and Saturday, that is all we would need. DUANE BEHM - If you would like S day a week pickup I am sure this could be arranged and leave the number of containers you feel you would need. RUTH THURNER - By the same token then for 1 garbage can we in the apartments should not have to pay $45.00 per apartment. We only have I person in many of them. Our rates should not be as high as a residence with 4, 5, or 6 children. There should be some adjustments here. I do not think you can make a flat rate. I think you have to assess each situation. If 1 garbage can serves 12 people (apartments), why are we paying the same rate as for 4 containers? DUANE BEHM - Ruth, you will have inequities all through the residential area. You have widows, widowers, and older couples living by themselves in single family residences that probably do not put out half the garbage as some of the young single people in your apartments. page Minutes of the City Council of Laurel RUTH THURNER - There are still 3.4 residences to a container, oompared to 12. That is what I am getting at. TIM ZENT - What is anticipated as equipment purchases are concerned? You are raising rates for anticipated expenditures. What exactly are you going to buy? DUANE BEHM Compactor for the landfill. This unit will run about $87,000 for a demonstrator and approximately $115,000 for a new one. Based on a 5 year payment schedule, monthly payments on most of these units will run around $2,400 to $2,500. We also had a week long trial run hauling the garbage to Billings. After extra labor was involved, gasoline, and wear and.tear on the equipment, we did not feel that was feasible. Particularly the way the price of gas is going. We could probably haul it to Billings for about the same money as we could buy a compactor for and keep our own landfill in operation. We have looked into a transfer proposal from a private individual who would be willing to haul the garbage to Billings for us, after our city trucks picked it up. This proposal was estimated to cost $75,000 a year. Of that, about $27~000 would go to the City of Billings for their landfill charge. TIM ZENT - Taking our present budget of $1B2,000 and using your figure of $2,500 that is another $30,000 a year for the compaotor. Are we going to do anything to the cat that is not running? DUANE BEHM - We had discussed that in committee meeting, and it was felt that we would have to give it a major overhaul and continue using it to dig the pit and then maybe use an old truck to move the dirt over. TIM ZENT - So we are looking at approximately $15,000 to $25,000 for a major overhaul according to Dick's estimates. So if we use $20,000, we have got SBO,000 a year for a compactor, are we then going to look at depreciation? There was a~notice in the Laurel Outlook where the City of Laurel was written up on that partioular fact that was performed in the audit of 1979 that the city does not have depre- ciation or capitalization sohedules for this type of asset. I presume we would or should have them. DUANE BEHM - I would think we probably have to. I am no accountant. Perhaps Don or Larry could answer this. MAYOR HERMAN - It is the ideal thing if you can have a depreciation schedule. TIM ZENT - Ideal or practical? MAYOR HERMAN - Both. If we were doing it, we would not be foroed today with the problem of buying equipment with no money. You just can not suddenly jump into it at this point and do it, because~the money is not there. TIM ZENT - How do you get into it then? MAYOR HERMAN - You have got to start gradually doing it. Eventually the city is going to have to do it. TIM ZENT - At what point in time do we decide to do it? MAYOR HERMAN - When you have got the money so you can afford to do it. When you do not have the money to work with it, that is a problem. They should page 5 Minutes of the City Council of Laurel have been doing it over the years, then they would not have the problem. To take every piece of equipment in the City of Laurel now, you just do not have the dollars. CLARENCE - Is this rate on a yearly basis? Can it go up again next year? DUANE BEHM - All the budgets are reviewed annually in June and July. If this rate is not adequate to cover the cost during the next year, we will possibly be looking at another rate increase a year from now. MAYOR HERMAN - This will be set by ordinance and the only way they can do it is have public hearings on it before it could be raised. DAVE POWERS - There are B of us using the container by my place, yet I will be charged $540.00. Van Bebber and the Creamery are using it along with myself. Answer: It was thought that the other 2 were using differeht con- tainers, so this will be reviewed and possibly an adjustment made. JIM SMITH - Why do some containers generate more revenue than others? DUANE BEHM - Some containers do generate more than the $540.00 due to the amount of businesses gathered around those containers and their type of usage. We looked at several different rate schedules throughout the state and we used these somewhat on different types of businesses. TIM ZENT If we just ignore the fact of depreciation, I come up with expenditures of approximately $192,000. That consists of the present budget of $132,000, using the 1 year repair estimate of $20,000 for the cat, a compactor payment of SB0,O00 a year and then $10,000 for maintenance of the compactor. We are looking at revenue of $169,000. Where is the difference going to come from? DUANE BEHM - Part of the difference would come in this first year. The rates would start with January 1, 1980. If we order a compactor we might not get it for 6 or 7 months or maybe a year. MAYOR HERMAN - Alley maintenance also come out of this budget. We are not just talking depreciation, etc. It may be that there is not going to be enough money generated to buy the equipment. If there is not, they are not going to get the equipment until they can afford it. So if they only have $160,000 coming in, they are not going to be able to buy it. But to maintain what we have now, we have to do something. They are not going to spend beyond what is in the budget. If people decide to cut down on the number of cans, they may cut down on the revenue also. ALBERT EHRLICK - Let me ask Tim a question. I listened to the article on the radio. He was talking about contracting it for $180,000 ($4.58 a month for residential, $36,000 for commercial. You've got 1600 residences.} Where are you going to get that $180,0007 TIM ZENT - For what? ALBERT EHRLICK - That you were talking about by contracting it. TIM ZENT - The private contractor based it on $4.58 and would generate about $169,000. ALBERT EHRLICK - $4.58 will generate about $90,000 plus $36,000; and you are not going to get $180~000 out of that either. TIM ZENT - The private contractor's bid was $169,000 to take over the total service as is provided by the City of Laurel right now (2 day a week pickup in residential and 6 days a week in commercial.) page 6 Minutes of the City Council of Laurel MAYOR HERMAN - There are other things in the budget besides picking up garbage. We have not been putting enough into alley maintenance, and that comes out of the assessment. TIM ZENT - That should come out of the total city budget, not just garbage. MAYOR HERMAN - No. That comes out of the garbage assessment. What I am saying is that if you go private there are still other costs involved here. RUTH THURNER - You have never had alley maintenance before. MAYOR HERMAN - There has been some, but not enough. DON MEYERS -It is going to cost $20,000 to fix the cat. If you look back and see how much we have already spent, why spend $8B,000 for a piece of equipment when we do not have the facilities to take care of it? It is going to be in the same shape as that eat, and we will be right back where we started from. DUANE BEHM - No. I disagree with you. That cat was a minimum purchase in 1975. It is designed to move dirt, and it is not a garbage compactor. It is in use 6 or 7 hours a day. The compactor's actual running time probably wpuld not exceed 3 or 4 hours a day and it would not be working as hard packing the garbage as that eat does now. The biggest problem with the cat has been the way they have been transporting the dirt. They start a pit, take a 2 yard bucket of dirt with the cat and they might drive 100 yards to pile it up at the pit they are going to use. Then go back and get another 2 yard bucket. What we have talked about is if we rebuild the cat, is to take one of the old dump trucks out of the shop or buy a 5 yard can to move that dirt over so the cat is not making so many trips. MIKE SANKOVICH - Are you buying a compactor to compact recyclable materiai or everything? Answer: It will compact everything but tires. There is an opportunity to recycle cardboard boxes, etc. MAYOR HERMAN ~ One thing we are going to have to look at are the options available to the city. We should be looking at some type of joint venture with the county and maybe even with the City of Billings. DON - Right now I am paying $236.28 a year for my garbage, which is low, I agree. But it is going to $2,700 a year. I have a garbage disposal and I recycle all my cardboard boxes. MAYOR HERMAN How many containers do you have? DON ~ 5 MAYOR HERMAN DON - No. Do you need 5? MAYOR HERMAN - If you can cut down to 2 containers, this would reduce your cost. ALBERT EHRLICK - Safeways in Helena is paying a little over $4,000 a year. JIM SMITH - How much of the garbage assessment is for alley maintenance? DUANE BEHM - This year there was $4,000 budgeted for gravel to be used On ~lley maintenance. ED THURNER - I want to know when we have 16 people with 2 garbage cans and ~he residential is ~.4 residences to a container, why I have to pay what I do, or why don't I have more cans, or why don't I get a refund? page 7 Minutes of the City Council of Laurel MAYOR HERMAN - You should have more ED THURNER - These cans have been a Herman~ many, many times. MAYOR HERMAN - They haven't had any since I ED THURNER - OK then, why don't you give us MAYOR HERMAN - I wish I could. ED THURNER - I think you better. are cheating me. cans. long coming. We have talked about this~ talked to you last. an adjustment on the rate? I don't think it is fair. I think you You have not got too many years left up there, and you are talking about one tremendous amount of bucks. Nobody has yet satisfied my thinking in turning away from the private contractor concept. Let's talk about some of these people we don't need if we get rid of this garbage thing. You are completely neglecting the landfill. MAYOR HERMAN - Ne, I am not. I am also not convinced right now that the com- mercial rate is the way to go. DEL TEETERS I am not convinced that the city has any business staying in the solid waste disposal. OTTO PREIKSZAS - Suppose you obligate yourself for an $83,000 compactor and them a year later you enter into a joint venture with the county. MAYOR HERMAN - We have not obligated ourselves for it yet. cans. cans~ is going can not It is going to get done. ED THURNER - Why am I being MAYOR HERMAN - You are not. ED THURNER - It seems to me one way or the other. RUTH THURNER - It seems to knock the budget all set the budget until we DEL TEETERS - One thing to me if you do all of this adjusting, it to heck! Answer: Right! That is why we know hew many dollars are available. that has never come up is your landfill. discriminated against? It has been a problem of not obtaining the it is a matter of adjusting either costs or TIM ZENT - Maybe I operated under an incorrect assumption. I sat on the city garbage committee and we were raising the rates to generate funds enough to cover the cost of purchasing what was thought to be necessary equipment. Now if there is not that thought in mind, I can not forsee any reason to raise the rates. MAYOR HERMAN - You really do not know what you are going to generate until everyone is adjusted on their number of cans, etc. It is going to fluctuate. TIM ZENT - What are we going to do if we have a large discrepancy? If the city does not purchase anything for 2 years, we have given the city an extra 30, 40, or 50 thousand dollars to spend of the taxpayers money. MAYOR HERMAN - No, we have been running in the red about $20,000 without buying any equipment. So you have got to raise it just to compensate for the inflationary trend. ED THURNER - You have not answered my question. MAYOR HERMAN - I do not know the answer. I am as upset about that as anyone else. I have mentioned it to several people, and I will mention it again. page 8 Minutes of the City Council of Laurel There was discussion regarding people living outside the city and dumping their garbage in city containers. An ordinance has been passed to deal with this situation and violators can be fined. CAM CALVERT - What became of the original concept of the budget where it was being considered as a means of raising funds to provide suitable opera- tion of the landfill? That has obviously been dismissed. MAYOR HERMAN - No. I don't think it has. CAM CALVERT - Do the people around here have at hand the proposal from the private enterprise firms that would take over the garbage? MAYOR HERMAN - Well, just ask what it costs them at the east end of town per month. CAM CALVERT - How about the transfer station? Do you have that proposal? Answer: About $75,000 to build. Discussion by Tim Zent regarding the transfer station. DUANE BEHM - rim, we have looked at either going to a transfer station or maintaining our landfill. Now you sat in on enough of those committee meetings that you should realize that I think. If we go to a transfer station we are still looking at approximately $170,000 a year budget. We are looking at ways to raise this $170,000 whether we stay in the business or give it to a private individual. TIM ZENT - But we do not have the revenue.. We are generating $169,000 and in one case we are looking at $192,000 in expenditures. I am saying there is a discrepancy here. Then the mayor says we are not going to buy until we have the funds to do it. MAYOR HERMAN - You are going to have to start building your funds for it, aren't you? If you want something you have to build towards it, and we are not going to do it in one year. There was more discussion regarding a transfer station, or contract with a private firm, the city taking care of the garbage, funding depreciation, and budgeting. DUANE BEHM - We have basically 3 alternatives: 1) The city maintains the service that we have been providing. We are estimating this to include the compactor at the landfill, for about $170,000 a year. 2) Transfer station for a cost of about $72,000. We still have a little over $90,000 in picking up the garbage and getting it to the transfer station. 3) We can eliminate the city service altogether, turn it over to a private individual for about $169,000. You people are looking at about the same amount of money whichever way we go. If you really feel that you will get better service, then the private route may be the better way to go. He guaranteed no more than 15% increase a year. You put 15% on top of $169,000, then take a look at what you might have to pay next year. page 9Minutes of the City Council of Laurel I have put a lot of time into this. I think the residential people have been carrying the commercial area in the past, and we tried to equalize this some. Granted there are some areas that are going to need some adjustments. I admitted that before, and I would be willing to sit down and discuss it at any of our committee meetings with you. If the rest of the committee was in concurrence, the rate could be adjusted. But I think basically we are looking at a $170,000 a year service, whether we provide it or someone else does. The rates that we propose will generate approxi- mately $169,000. Now, I think the committee and myself have put a lot of time in to try and serve you people. I think we have come up with a pretty fair and equit- able rate system. I knew that everybody would not be in concurrence. We could go on all night, going back and forth. I would be willing to sit here as long as you want, but I think we are starting to go in circles. JIM SMITH - I hear quite often from city government that the businesses do not carry their fair share. We are at a point where we can not take any more increases in taxes. Answer: We are trying to make it as fair as pos- sible for everyone. MAYOR HERMAN - One thing that would.be helpful to the council and the com- mittee, before they take any final action, is if you have some thoughts write them down so we can look at them. We would like to try and get some- thing done by the end of the month. PAT MULLANEY - Our rate would jump about 400%. It seems like quite a jump. Since the city has spent a lot of time on their study, as far as I am con- cerned, I would like to see the city go ahead with the plans they have right now and try it for a year. After you have tried it, then you will have a better idea where the adjustments will have to be made. You might have some adjustments to make immediately. I do not want to go to a private contractor until we have tried this out. There being no further busi~ to come before the council at this time, meeting was adjourned at 8' . Donald L. Hackmann, City er Approved by the Mayor and passed by the City Council of the City of Laurel; Montana, this 6th day of May, 1980. ATTEST: ~~ ~. Herman, Mayor Donald L. Ha~kmann, City Clerk