HomeMy WebLinkAboutCity/County Planning Board Minutes 05.18.1993MINUTES
CITY-COUNTY PLANNING BOARD
MAY 18, 1993 5:30 P.M.
COUNCIL CHAMBERS
MEMBERS PRESENT:
OTHERS PRESENT:
John Hawley Smith, Chairman
Larry Thomas, City Rep.
Donna Kilpatrick, City Rep.
Lonnie Kellogg, City Rep.
Gerald Shay, Member-at-Large
Donald Gudgell, County Rep.
Clarence Foos, County Rep.
Billielou Lance, County Rep.
Cal Cumin, City Planner
Cheryll Lund, City Secretary
Martin & Rose Nussbaum, 607 Hazel Ave.
Louis E. Gauthier, 912 Washington
Julia Herbert, 602 3rd Ave.
Albert Hodges, 811 Wyoming
Paul Elsenpeter, 813 Wyoming
Anne Hamburg, 1025 7th Ave.
Duane Loken, Engineering, Inc., Billings
Merle Brunsvold, 519 E. 7th
Robin & Ken Herman, 718 Washington
Ray & Eula Harris, 810 Washington
Shirley & Jack Budge, 806 Washington
Dee & L.C. McClelland, 708 E. Maryland
Jim Worthington, City Engineer
Zone Change- Public Hearinq- Certificate of Survey #2385.
Duane Lockum, Engineering, Inc., spoke concerning this application.
He represents Martin & Rose Nussbaum.
The reason for this zone change is to allow duplex's to be built.
The zone now is R-7500 and this does not allow for more than
single-family homes. The zone change is to R-6000 which allows
duplex's.
The Certificate of Survey is a 5-acre tract.
7 duplex units , and one single family unit
property manager's residence.
The plan is to build
which would be the
The plan is for two-bedroom units with a double garage. It is a
wood-frame normal construction~ The utility services will be
connection to the city water main with one common meter, and a fire
hydrant line. The sanitary sewer would be provided through the
city main, with individual pressure systems from each unit which
will gather and discharge into the city line.
Drainage will be from north to south with discharge into the
Nutting drain (surface drainage). Curb and gutter will be
installed, and paved streets.
The development will occur in stages. The single family unit and
one duplex will be done in the first stage, and then add units to
the south in the proceeding stages.
Question on the Nutting drain handling the run-off. Mr. Lockum
said that he will review the drainage facilities with the City
Engineer and will then probably have to grade the site to allow
some water to be retained and dissipate into the property. The
drainage that will go to the south will still be within the
property.
Mr. Lockum feels that with the sparse density of the housing, the
run-off will not be large. It's not like building a large paved
parking lot. The majority of the run-off will be able to soak into
the property.
Opponent's
Dee McClelland, 708 E. Maryland, asked about the drainage of the
water; distance between the duplexes; whether or not it is low-
income housing or subsidized; is it a two-story unit; are these
to rent or to buy?
She presented the board with 59 signatures against the zone change.
They want it to remain R-7500, single family housing. (see
attached)
Cal stated that Joe Bradley needs to check this petition to see if
it is valid.
~reg Thomas, (didn't sign in on sign-in sheet) had a question on
what is going to happen to the park along Washington Avenue?
Duane Lockum stated that there will be a road through the park, and
that there is an easement in place to allow that road.
Also Mr. Thomas is asking about the road that will be put.through
the park, will there be a culvert put underneath it?
Mr. Lockum states that yes there will be a culvert.
Mr. Thomas wonders what they will do when debris plugs that
culvert? Mr. Lockum states that debros will be the responsibility
of the caretaker/maintenance person. Also will the culvert be able
to hold alot of run-off in the spring rains? Mr. Lockum states
that they will size it accordingly.
Dee McClelland, wonders if these units will be rented to children?
Mr. Nussbaum states that he is unable to answer those kinds of
questions. He feels that the audience is trying to pin him down to
a certain kind of renter, and at this time he is unwilling to make
that kind of a commitment. He will rent it to whoever is in need
of a rental. It is also in his best interest to have a good
renter.
Cal states that there is going to be about half of the amount of
children that would normally be allowed to live in that type of a
zone.
Ray ~arris, 810 Washington, wonders about the plan for the duplex.
Are they Going to put basements in as the plan does show a
stairway?
Mr. Nussbaum states that with the high water table they have been
advised not to put any basements in.
Mr. Harris states that he would like to see some type of an
agreement drawn up between the property owner and the City on the
adjacent park land. He states that the park is absolutely
worthless. He would like to see a ballfield established. He also
asks about the pressure sewer that will be pumped into the city
line. The sewer broke awhile back in that same area, and he is
wondering how many problems they will all experience once 15 more
units are tied in?
Also, once these units are put in, he feels that the weeds and
dandelions in that park will be more of a problem.
Also, what kind of restrictions will there be in the future, as far
as whether or not someone can put in a business? He states that he
has been looking at this property since 1956, from his house, and
that they would love to have it developed. In all of these years
the property has never been maintained.
Cal states that maybe an agreement can be made that the property
owner can keep the City park mowed.
Mr. Nussbaum states that he feels that an agreement can be made on
the cutting of the weeds.
Marilee Tho~s, (didn't sign in on sign in sheet) states that her
kids play ball in the park. She would hate to see anything put in
that would take the "peacefulness" of the park away. They enjoy
looking out at it.
Robin ~erman, 718 Washington, wonders what this development will do
to her taxes?
Cal states that unless she makes improvements to her own property
her taxes should not change.
~reg Thomas, wonders what age group these duplex's are goinG to be
sold or rented to?
Mr. Nussbaum answers that these are not going to be built all at
the same time. He can't foretell the future as far as who he is
going to rent these units to.
Mr. Thomas wonders how this will impact Graff School?
children have to be bussed across town?
Will his
Cal states that we don't build new schools until there are more
children. That would be a different issue.
Cal states that there will be half as many children with this plan
as there would be under the present zoning. Without any zone
change at all there could be twice as many single-family units
built as with this proposal.
Paul Elsenpeter, 813 Wyoming, is wondering who is putting in the
lift station?
Cal states that the property owner is responsible for that.
Mr~ Lockum states that there will not be
will be individual force pumps gathering
discharging to the main.
a lift-station, but it
to one spot and then
Mr. Elsenpeter is concerned about the sewer line, and the effect on
this.
Jim Worthington spoke. He states that the line did collapse on 8th
Street. It has been repaired. All of the damaged sections have
been repaired. The section is an 8-inch line and it can handle the
extra flow from these 15 proposed units.
Question on the length of sewer line we repaired? Jim would have
to check exact length, but he thinks between 130 and 150 feet.
A comment was made that it was more like 80 feet that was repaired.
Jim states that all damaged lines were repaired.
Question on running the line to Idaho Avenue instead of Washi'ngton?
Jim states that the owner's don't have access to that line.
(No-one at this point is identifying themselves before speaking)
A comment that the city's main sewer line cannot handle 15 more
families and that they want this property to stay the way is always
has been.
Mr. Nussbaum states that he will be glad to subdivide this into
separate lots. He could sell twice as many units. He could make
more money doing that then he could by building 7 duplex's. And,
there would be twice as many people living there.
Cal states that approximately 29 single lots could be made. That
would be twice the amount of families as there would be with the 7
proposed units.
A1 Hodges, 811 Wyoming, is wondering why there is no access off of
Idaho for the sewer?
Mr. Loken states that according to the plat it has been abandoned.
Jim Worthington stated that at one time this was one big plat, and
in 1976 it was platted to three 5-acre tracts. To his knowledge
there has never been any proposed roads going from Alder to
Washington going north.
A question (by someone not identifyin9 themselves) on whether or
not this is the final proposal. If they do change the zoning, he
is wondering whether or not he can change the plan and put more
units into it?
Cal states that this is the final plan.
(Unknown person) Wonders what will happen if this plan does go
through and then the owner decides to change his mind?
Cal states again that this is the final plan. If he decides to go
with more units he will have to go back through the same procedure
with this Board.
Dee McClelland, wonders about covenants, rules and restrictions?
Mr. Nussbaum states that their is always going to be rules.
(Unknown person) states she has a sump
already, and they don't have a basement.
the effects of this plan as to run off?
pump in their cellar
She is wondering about
Dee McClelland, wants to know how far off of her property line will
they build these duplex's?
Mr. Loken states, 60 feet.
Mrs. McClelland states that then there could be a road put through
between her property and the proposed units, and they could call it
Idaho Road.
Mr. Loken states that the owner reaiizes that in the future if
there would be a road put in that they have allowed enough room for
that road. That has been considered in the laying out of the
units. They have tried to minimize the impact on the other
properties in that area.
(Unknown person) Wonders if they will put in sump pumps?
Mr. Loken states that there will be no basements.
(Unknown person) states that even without a basement a sump pump
will be needed.
(Unknown person) wants to know why if the Nursing Home didn't find
it feasible to build on this piece of property, why this builder is
considering building?
(Unknown person) wondering who this Board is (Planning Board), and
how this Board makes its decision?
Gerald Shay states that this Board doesn't take its jobs lightly
and they usually end up pleasing no-one.
(Unknown person) states that she realizes that something will
eventually be built on this property. She would like to see
something pleasing put up that doesn't have a big impact on the
neighborhood. She enjoys watching the rabbits play in the field.
Dee M~Clelland, wants to know why this meeting was held at 5:30
p.m. tonight and not at 7:00 p.m. as normal?
Gerald Shay states that this was to help speed up the application.
If' the hearing hadn't of been tonight it would not of been held
until June 10th.
Tonight the City Council will consider the Planning Board's
recommendation and schedule a public hearing for a Council meeting
night.
Mr. Loken stated that he feels that if the people opposing this
application would realize that this plan has less density of
housing than it could be in its present zone. The housing units
are top quality. A two bedroom unit is also not conducive to large
families. Probably the people renting the units will be older
people or couples with no children.
Dee McClellan, states that alot of times what you see on paper is
not what the contractor builds. Bob Mace's six-plex on Washington
Avenue is a good example.
(Unknown person) states that the owner of this proposal has been
honest in saying that because of money, this proposal Will have to
be done in phases. She wonders what is going to happen if he can't
afford to put in paved streets? Is it going to sit half done?
The public hearing was closed at 6:25 p.m.
Corrections were made on the minutes from last time. Motion
to approve minutes was made and passed.
Home 0ccuDation- Anne Hamburq- Computer Monitorinq- 1025 7th Ave.
She will use her computer to maintain a monitoring service. This
service could be used for the elderly or for latch key kids. There
will be no client traffic or employee's. She will hand out
information pamphlets at the local nursing homes.
Motion by John Smith, seconded by Billielou Lance to approve
the Home Occupation. Motion carried.
Zone Change- Nussbaum (cont.)
Lonnie Kellogg Stated that cui-de-sac's
City garbage collection system.
are not conducive to the
Cal states that this will have to be considered by the City
fathers. If it means that the residents have to bring their cans
to the curb, then they will have to do so.
Question on future re-sale of this proposal. Cal states that the
only way he can sell it after it is approved and done is to sell it
as 7 units on the five acres. If he sells it any differently he
will have to come back to this Board for approval.
Question on the main sewer line. Duane Loken states that the
sewerage will become the City's property once it hits the City's
main. Before that point it will be the owner's responsibility.
(This will be discussed with Jim Worthington for a final decision
on the above).
Question on the assurance that this will all go through. What if
they only get a road and one unit built?
Cal states that actually that is what all of the neighbor's want.
It will become a house on 5 acres which is what the neighbor's to
the east have. This is an owner's issue. We shouldn't be
concerned with that.
Cal also stated that this is a low impact for that acreage. The
days of the neighbors' watching rabbits will not last. This
proposed plan would be the lowest impact imaginable.
Cal also reminded everyone that the City cannot take care of the
parks that it has now, and the fact that Mr. Nussbaum is planning
to take care of the mowing of the park is a big plus.
Cal recommends that this go to the City Council with an approval,
and that they have a public hearing. Cal stated that we need to
make the protest a part of the record.
The protest that was received was somewhat misleading, and the
Attorney needs to look into the protests. If it is considered
valid it takes 3/4 of the City Council to vote in favor of action
on it if 20% of property owner's protest it.
Motion by John Smith, seconded
recommend approval to the City Council.
and 3 against the Motion carried.
by Billielou Lance, to
With a vote of 4 in favor
The meeting was adjourned at 7:50 p.m.
Respectfully submitted,
che~~lLund, Secretary