HomeMy WebLinkAboutCommittee of the Whole Minutes 04.13.1994MINUTES
CITY COUNCIL COMMITTEE
APRIL 13, 1994
MEMBERS PRESENT: Chairman - Chuck
Ron Marshall
Gay Easton
John Minch
Donna Kilpatrick
OTHERS PRESENT: Don Hackmann
Richard Larsen
Jennifer Draper
OF THE WHOLE
6:08 P.M.
Rodgers
Chuck Dickerson.
Bob Graham
Lonnie Kellogg
Vicki Metzger
(Laurel Outlook)
A special meeting of the City Council of the Whole was
held for the purpose of reviewing Richard Larsen's proposal,
for the preparation of Job Descriptions, a City Policy
Manual, and a City Procedures Manual.
Chuck Rodgers mentioned that some of you had questions and
Mr. Larsen is here to discuss his proposal with you.
Chuck Dickerson said that he got the proposal Tuesday night
before the Council. meeting and lie did not have a chance to
read through it. Alderwoman Kilpatrick was not here the
0 night it was voted an and Chuck felt it was important that
all. aldermen be able to vote on this.
Not having a chance to read through it, Chuck said he had
some misconceptions about it. One of his concerns was that
Laurel is a very unionized town. If you sit down and go
through job descriptions with the current employees, both
full-time and part-time, and you end up drawing up a job
description manual, what are the chances of this being
challenged by the union? Maybe this employee who is sitting
down with Mr. Larsen knows what they are doing and the
responsibility involved, but their duties may overlap into
other areas. Chuck is concerned about paying the
consultation fees and then have a problem where you have to
take everything back to the drawing board because now, the
union is challenging what the City has come up with or what
has been done.
Richard Larsen said that when you have a labor contract,
everything that pertains to wages, hours, and working
conditions, which includes job descriptions, personnel
policies and procedures, is negotiable.
He said that within the labor contract, you would negotiate
the policy and procedures manuals, adoption by reference,
where they are not in conflict with the labor agreement.
You would also have that in your policies and procedures.
The labor agreement would prevail on those that are
different.
Page 2
Council of the Whole, April 13, 1991
The same thing is very similar when you come to job
descriptions. Job descriptions are written on the things
the employee is doing, not only the things they say they are
doing but, the things that the Council believes 'they should
be doing. The Council directs what the work is and you have
a management right to say "here is what. I expect" and you
draw up the job description. The job descriptions
themselves are developed by the expectations that the
Council and Mayor set. The Council sets the criteria of
service. That, is a management right under Montana Statutes.
However, the employee participates and says, here are the
different, things we are doing. The City's labor contract is
written in such a way that job descriptions are a part of
the contract. So you would negotiate the new job
descriptions into the contract. Generally speaking, the
nature of the descriptions are not negotiable, but the rate
of pay for that job becomes a negotiable item. The Council
has a management right to say here is the job description
but the employee has the right to negotiate how much they
will be paid.
In .response, Chuck Dickerson said he can see where this
might come to a head to head situation at the time of
negotiations. If the City tells the employees what we
expect and we negotiate on the salaries, can it be a binding
thing to where the City can force the employees to go out
and work?
Richard said basically the City can say, here is what we
expect and here is the description of the job. We are
hiring a person for this job. But in the labor contract,
the union will say, "that's fine, you tell us what you want
and we will negotiate the wage that you are going to pay us
to do this job".
Chuck said he has sat in on negotiations before and he can
remember that not only are the salaries negotiated, but also
what that person's job is going to entail.
Richard said that depends on the nature of it. There is an
inherent management right to direct the work, to select and
to assign, and all those types of things.
The Montana Statutes identify that management has a very
clear right to direct, assign and identify the wotxk that has
to be done. Most unions, including AFSCME, say that you
draw up the job descriptions, but we are going to negotiate
what you pay. If you add requirements, skills, certain
types of work elements and/or gtialifi.cations, you're going
to pay for it. That is inherent in the labor process.
Page 3
49 Council of the Whole, April 1.3, 1994
Richard said that when you put
now is the time to determine if
separate or combine jobs. It is
vacancy in an area. You need to
to redefine the remaining jobs
This provides the opportunity to
job descriptions together,
you want to modify', adjust,
'the same as when you, have a
determine whether you want
or just fill the vacancy.
look at it.
In regard to problems with job descriptions at the
bargaining table, Richard said the only instance he recalls
personally is when a supervisory responsibility has been
placed upon a bargaining unit employee. Something like this
has to be worked through and a decision has to be made.
Chuck asked Richard if this type of proposal has been
implemented in Billings or any other municipality where they
have the council type government and a union type labor
:Force? He would like to visit with others who have
implemented a plan similar to this.
Richard said he has done work for Livingston and Hardin who
are about our size and many other cities and counties. The
format he uses is called the Modified Hayes System. As
City Manager of Billings, he introduced. this systems for job
descriptions in 1978-79. The process of this system is what
most people with job descriptions utilize today. It
identifies very closely with todays ADA requirements.
Richard said Billings is currently going through the process
of writing job descriptions as well as a wage program.
Problems have arisen and he said he has a problem with the
wage survey part of it. They are doing a wage
classification with it which is where the challenge comes
from. You need to make sure you have verifiable job
descriptions if you are going to have a wage classification
with equal pay for equal work concept. The survey utilized
both public and private sector wages but they did not do the
benefits comparison until. later. Richard said you cannot do
this later. You have to equate all t:h.e benefits to a cents
per hour scale to make an accurate comparison. The
consultants are working this through now.
Richard stressed the importance of interviewing every
employee to come up with a verifiable job description,
otherwise it will not stand the test of verifiability on the
first: challenge.
John Minch questioned how much input the employees of the
City will- have in this process?
Richard said the job descriptions start with the employees.
He passes out a survey for each employee to fill out. Some
employees will be very specific and others will be very
Page 4
Council of the Whole, April 13, 1994
brief. Then he will spend approximately 30 minutes
interviewing each employee and find out exactly what it is
that each person does. Richard said it all starts with
these two areas. Then, the job description is built; around
what they do.
At this point, there is a second questionnaire that
supervisors have 'to fill out which states what they expect
the job to consist of. If there are any changes that they
or the Council would like to see made, this is the time to
do it. A job description is now put together and sent back
to the employees and the supervisors. They are asked to
review it and add to it, modify it or do whatever needs to
be done.
Richard said there is one potential conflict that does come
and it is a natural thing. The council says this is what we
want you to do and the employee says, no, that is not what I
do. The council has to determine that this is now what they
will do because this is the way they want to modify it. It
will now come back as a labor contract issue which. will
involve salaries.
41 The next step is an all da
department heads. Richard
all employees if possible.
that are happening and the
through to implement their
y session with the Council. and all
suggested that this also include
They know the day to day things
procedures that they have to go
personnel policies.
Richard related his experience in working with Belgrade. He
said the employees were a part of this all day session and
things came out that surprised even the management part of
the city.
This has to be customized to fit your town. You are the
ones who have to live with the results of what is adopted.
In response to a question about overlapping jobs, Richard
said you would write this into the job descriptions. He
gave an illustration of how this works and said it comes
down to an issue of how you pay them. Do you pay them out
of streets, water, sewer, etc.? Richard said this is a
matter of assignment and allocation of their working hours.
This is not a matter of description separation. It is all
within the same description and it does not become a
conflict.
John Minch said we have 11 employees on the crew and not
everyone is qualified to do every job. He gave an example
where some are required to have certain qualifications and
others are not.
Page 5
Council of the Whole, April 13, 1,994
Richard said for those who have to have certain
qualifications, this is a part of their job descriptions and
for the others who do not have this, it is not a requirement
in their job description.
Richard clarified that the policies and procedures apply to
all. employees, part-time or full-time, all, volunteers, the
Council and the Mayor. They do not, get into what the
person actually does, that is the function of the job
descriptions.
Personnel policies govern the perso
everything from wages and hou,Vs to
processes that you go through.
John Minch clarified the situation that
and said that there is not a follow up
something is done incorrectly by an
creates disgruntled employees.
nnel functions of
benefits and the
he spoke of before
by management when
employee and this
Richard said 'that if the employee does not have the
qualifications to operate a piece of equipment, it is the
respnnsibil_ity of the supervisor to follow through on the
matter and carry out the terms of the description.
Just by adding something in the policy or job description,
does not mean that it will work. It sets the rules, but it
has to be applied and followed up by the supervisors. If
the problem is that the supervisor needs some training in
how to handle it, that is another issue.
Donna Kilpatrick commented that she appreciates the opinion
of others that we need an engineer quickly but, she does
feel we need to go through this process first to identify
our needs so we don't wear out our next engineer. She feels
this process would really help.
Richard said part of his charge or what he was suppose to do
is to help the City determine what type of person will. best
fulfill the needs of the city before someone is hired. He
understood that during this interim period, we still have
the services of Jim Worthington on a limited basis. If
there is a need for an engineer, that will come out during
this process. This will give you the sound basis to make a
decision.
Chuck Dickerson said that if we go through this whole
process at a cost of approximately $ 7,100.00, does Richard
foresee anything happening or arising that could possibly
escalate the cost to the taxpayers?
Page 6
Council of the Whole, April 13, 1994
Richard said no, that if it takes twice the amount of time
than he anticipated, the cost will not change.
Chuck was not 'thinking in terms of additional man hours but
rather if another area comes up over here that needs to be
addressed either by the union or if there is something that
we possibly did not foresee, could there be additional
charges?
Richard said certainly this is possible. Maybe after you
have done the job descriptions, you may want a wage
classification which is not a part of this proposal.
Richard commented on the different ways he goes about
writing job descriptions and said it is based, on what may
already exist or he may start from scratch.
After the policies are all done and ready to be adopted, he
will meet with all employees and introduce the policies so
he can answer any questions that they may have.
Chuck Dickerson said he feels uncomfortable spending any
more of the taxpayers money but it has been pointed out to
him that no one within the City has the expertise or the
time to bring the City into the realm of compliance. When
he compares the cost of getting nailed on a compliance issue
and having 'to pay a fine verses 'the cost of having this
done, it is easier to justify having this done.
Richard said he is very sensitive to the point Chuck was
trying to make about mushrooming costs. What you see here
is your, proposal. It is not to say that at some point in
the future, you may want to go to another form of government
and need help restructuring. That cost is not in his
proposal, his proposal is to identify our structure as it is
today.
It was stated that this is the year that the citizens of
Laurel will vote on the form of government they want.
John Minch asked Richard if this type of work has created a
better working relationship between the employees and
management in other cities where this has been done.
Richard said that in the process of involving the employees,
they have a say in the solution and the solution is partly
theirs. That is why he encourages you to involve as many of
the employees in the policy/procedures discussion. When
they have input, it becomes theirs as well and they have an
interest in the outcome. It has been very positive in the
cities he has worked with and made the relationship better.
In Livingston, the employees even contributed ideas and
Page 7
a Council of the Whole, April 13, 1994
suggestions to help balance the budget, which is something
that had not been done in a very long time.
Chuck Dickerson asked if Richard has ever run into the
situation where unions have offered opposition to the
employees sitting with you and answering these types of
questions and putting this 't'ype of information down?
Richard said he has never run into this type of problem. He
has had union officials from Helena join in on discussions
to see what is happening.
The Mayor commented that Lonnie Kellogg feels we need an
engineer or public works director immediately. Lonnie also
mentioned that we have a manual of ADA regulations and he
suggested that each-department head take the manual and come
back with the recommendations. The Mayor said they may be
able to help in -this area but he feels we need more
expertise,
The Mayor showed a copy of a sample job description that the
City Clerk received from MMIA and it was several pages long.
Lonnie Kellogg asked if this is a part of an organization
called Crosswalk and Dori Hackmann said he did not know.
Lonnie said that the descriptions from this organization
will not be too dissimilar and the majority of them will be
is a single
Don said
each one
MMIA and
pages.
that the
page.
he went to a workshop on job descriptions where
was very lengthy. He then received the ones from
they are shorter but they still involve several
Bob Worthington, MMIA Insurance Co-ordinator, stated
ones from MMIA do meet the ADA requirements.
More discussion on the time factor involved in getting this
done and how this will fit into Richard schedule.
It was stated 'that this can be brought up for another vote
but it must come from a person who voted "NO" at the last
meeting.
Chuck Dickerson said he feels that if it is brought up, the
whole Council needs to be present to vote on it and Alderman
Ehrlick is not here tonight. It was decided to make. a
motion to put this item on the agenda for the April 19th
Council meeting.
Motion by Alderman Dickerson to place this issue on the
agenda for the April 19th Council meeting, seconded by
Alderman Minch. Motion carried 7--0.
The meeting was adjourned at 7:05 p.m.
Respectfully Submitted,
Don Hackmann, City Clerk