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HomeMy WebLinkAboutCommittee of the Whole Minutes 10.05.1993r MINUTES CITY COUNCIL COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE OCTOBER 5, 1993 6:30 P.M. COUNCIL CHAMBERS MEMBERS PRESENT: Chairman - Chuck Rodgers Ron Marshall Norman Orr Albert Ehrlick Gay Easton Donna Kilpatrick L.D. Collins Lonnie Kellogg OTHERS PRESENT: Mike Atkinson Vicki Metzger Dave Michael Don Hackmann Peggy Schram Lonnie Kellogg stated he attended the County Quality Health Board meeting in Billings. Ron Marshall reported that cars are being parked on city streets for long periods of time. Mike Atkinson stated that individuals need to inform the department when vehicles have been sitting for long periods of time and they need to know just how long. The department does not have the manpower to go up and down the streets marking cars. The person complaining needs to know how long it has sat or the department cannot do anything about it. Mike said the dog catcher spends a couple days a month looking for cars that have''obviously been sitting for a long time but with the others we cannot tell, Albert Ehrlick reported that there is no curb and sidewalk where the new Lord's Video store is being built. Dave Michael reported that the curb and sidewalks are in poor condition on the whole block so the city approved running the blacktop out to the road until the whole block can be replaced. Albert had questions about South 5th Avenue, In regard to this, Chuck said he would like to have a Street and Alley Committee meeting on Thursday, October 7th at 5:00 p.m. to discuss this. Donna had a whether the Albert said Peggy said because the call from a resident of Spruce Grove regarding city is doing anything about a back exit. this should be a priority. the the landfill closure is a priority right now state has ordered it. We will be seeding next Page 2 Committee of the Whole minutes of October 5, 1993 weep and although Geo Research will continue monitoring on a semi-annual basis, it will no longer be our concern. Donna reported that the sprinkler systems in. the parks are being done and the new sidewalk looks great. Chuck said we need to get together and start doing something about the swimming pool.. It was stated that Jim Flisrand is getting estimates and when he gets back the committee can meet. Gay reported that the picnic; tables in the shelter are being vandalized. Dave said they will be stored in the swimming pool. again this year. Gay reported on problems with the heating system in the new court/council area.. This area has always been hotter than the clerk's side but the problem is much worse now that individual rooms have been made. There is no way to get the same ventilation that the library did when they occupied the area. Chuck said the Building Committee needs to look into this. L.D. commented on the letter in correspondence from Sweeney & Doak, regarding the proposed addition by Gary Temple. Chuck said this is an issue that needs the attention of all council members. Peggy stated construction has started with them going through the roof and putting in I-beams. She said her big question about this structural engineering and planning firm is the same problem that she has with all the theoretical engineers. He has not been to the site or looked at anything out here and yet he professes to be an expert at what; exists here. He has BCI joists going the wrong way and he of course does not know that we have plans that indicate that instead of east-west, the joists, at the request of Boise Cascade, are going to be going north-south. He is saying snow and wind loads are not going to be going with the joists. Boise Cascade has engineers that advised what 1-beams, trusses and joists to use. So what this person is saying is that he is more of an engineer than Boise Cascade's engineers. Boise makes a business of making sure the I-beams carry the load. This structural engineer is saying that Boise Cascade does not know what they are talking about. Peggy said Gary Temple was waived from this as Jim. Worthington was allowed to do. He is only required to have Page 3 Committee of the Whole minutes of October 5, 1.993 an architect or an engineer's plan for his addition. Peggy wants the council to go back to Mr. kverhard who got his variance and immediately dug and started putting in his foundation before he ever got his building permit. We told him he needed a set of plans from an architect or an engineer. Mr. Goldy came up with the plans but he did not. take into account the foundation that was already there. Peggy said Gary Temple, according to code, went to an architect and they are not going discuss anything that is already existing. The plans are just going to cover what he is putting on. He is within code by doing this because the code says architect or engineer's plan. Peggy said Jim Worthington was within code by waiving it because he did a walk through with Merle Cherry. He knows what, is there and "Joe Blow, structural engineer" does not. The structural, engineer was riot here, so what does he know of what is going on here. Before you question Mr. Worthington's expertise and registration, you might want to think about that. Peggy said that if the council demands it, she will rescind -the building permit, although she feels that at this point it is a bit late. You're not going to get anything better if Gary goes and gets an architectural plan. You're just going to deal with the joists and the addition, not with what is under it. Peggy said L.D. called and questioned the foundation and she said they would not deal. with the foundation. It would cost more to test the foundation -than what the building is worth, probably more than what the whole block of buildings is worth. These buildings were built in a time when things were meant to last and furthermore, the party walls were built with the thought that an addition was going to go on there anyway. Before rescinding Gary's building permit, Peggy asked the council to think about all these things. L.D. stated that all the engineer could go by were the blueprints that we gave him. Peggy said the man could come out here and look at the building. An engineer worth his salt is going to take the practical approach. Chuck said that when this building was constructed, the party wall was designed to be attached to in the future. Whether the years of standing have had any effect on it, Chuck can't say. C: C] r? Page 4 Committee of the Whole minutes of October 5, 1993 Peggy said Gary Temple did have an engineer out to look at the building before he ever called Merle Cherry. He was getting some OK's on things like the foundation, the party wall and other things. Jim Worthington also concurred that the party wall is very sound. Gay asked if Peggy, is saying that Brewer and Associates is not a licensed engineering company. Peggy stated that Jim Worthington is just as licensed as any engineer Brewer & Associates has. She has very low respect for someone who will not come out and look at a job, particularly on a remodeling or addition. You might. be able to get away with it on new construction but not on a remodeling jo b. Peggy feels they should have at least looked at the buil ding that is being remodeled. Chuck said everyone is aware of the situation and we all need to keep on top of it. Donna said these seem to be good questions and she wondered if we can answer them. Peggy said that as far as the snow and wind loads, she is going back to Boise Cascade who engineered the I-beams to handle the loads required in this area. Jim had determined that there was no deterioration of the party wall and it was designed to handle the additional load of another story. Brewer and Associates is dealing with placement of the beams which is not accurate. Boise Cascade had an engineer come oui; and tell Gary what they would rather do for safety reasons. Gary listened to them and agreed to it. Peggy said you are calling into question Merle Cherry, one of your local contractors. Do you all distrust his work that much? (There were comments from Albert and Gay but they were not audible on the tape.) Lonnie questioned what would happen if we deny the permit. Chuck said Gary Temple would probably come back and sue the city. There were questions about whether or not the city would be protected. Peggy said Gary is required, by code to have architectural plans but they do not cover the existing building. L.D. hypothetically stated that if he wanted, he could go out and build any building he wants and do so on top of an Page 5 Committee of the Whole minutes of October 5, 1993 unstable foundation and the only thing you can require is that I stabilize the top? Peggy said that if she had been on this case from the beginning, Gary Temple would not have done anything until he had proper plans. We would have done everything we could have to cover ourselves. Chuck stated this has been discussed enough here tonight but if need be, we can call a special meeting to continue this discussion and decide which direction we want to go. L.D. stated he does not feel we need to rescind the building permit. He feels we need to ask for a structural analysis of the building underneath. If that proves that it is solid and secure, then there would be no problem with the addition. Peggy questioned exactly what else we can request since we have already issued the permit and Gary has started construction. The time to have asked for it would have been before he opened up his roof. Peggy stated she does not know about the law and she wished Joe Bradley was present, but she thought it might tale an injunction to stop construction. Vicki said Joe advised us to get more information on this before proceeding. Peggy said we decided to go to rest on Jim Worthington's license. He went to the structure and and looked at the various places that would be taking loads and called. it good. Donna said that in that case we should be able to answer these questions. Dave said to answer all the questions is a very costly and time consuming procedure. You can't just look at it, but rather you have to test it. Dave said the judgement was based on physically looking at the building. Mike Atkinson asked Chuck if the city has been served with an injunction regarding the seizure of property from a pawn shop that the police know is stolen. Mike said he does not understand how a judge can overturn a state law. Dave said that during our last lead sampling, the levels were up a little bit and we have to notify the people of -that fact. We need to get a program set up through the Utilities Committee to control the levels without any major Page 6 Committee of the Whole minutes of October 5, 1993 expense to property owners. Dave said the levels are still only 1/2 of what the national drinking water standards are. Chuck said 'the level, within the lines of the city are very low. The problem is mainly from the curb box into the home or in the home itself. Peggy stated that when the landfill is finished, the crew will move to South 5th to clear that up. After that we will concentrate on the container site. The meeting was adjourned at 7:04 p.m. Respectfully submitted, Dona d L. Hackmann City Clerk • 0