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HomeMy WebLinkAboutCity/County Planning Board Minutes 01.12.1989LAUREL-YELLOWSTONE • CITY-COUNTY PLANNING BOARD LAUREL, MONTANA 69044 January 12, 1989 The Planning Board meeting was brought to order at 7:00 p.m. with the following members present: Gerald Shay, Co. Representative Grace Edwards, Co. Commissioner Darrell Aaby, City Representative Clarence Foos, Co. Representative Russell Bray, Co. Representative Don Gudgell, Co. Representative Joe Bradley, City Representative Chuck Dickerson, City Representative Members absent: Velda Thomas, City Representative John Smith, City Representative Others present: Dennis Conway, 808 Sinclair Circle, Laurel Roy Johnson, 1727 W. 9th St., Laurel J. Creccy, 1807 W. 9th St., Laurel E.R. Hansen, 2745 W. Maryland, Laurel Jim Vogl, 606 W. Main, Laurel Marilee Moreland, 1740 W. Marland Lane, Laurel Chris Shay, 3430 Old Hwy. 10, Laurel Ed Krumm, 1831 W. 9th, Laurel Bonnie Kruss, 1831 W. 9th, Laurel Gary Temple, 1740 W. Maryland, Laurel Dennis Paxinos, 1445 Broadwater Ave., Billings Wayne Fox, no address given Cal Cumin, Cronin Associates, Billings The minutes of the December meeting were presented. Motion by Chuck Dickerson, seconded by Grace Edwards, to approve the minutes. Motion carried. Motion b Grace Edwards, seconded by Chuck Dickerson, to approve the bill for Administrative Services for $ 200. Motion carried. CcrTlaint on Gary Temple Studio at. 1740 W: Maryland Lane, Laurel For this meeting, Roy Johnson, who is a Planning Board member has taken himself off the Board and is in the audience. Gerald Shay is acting Chairman for this meeting, as John Smith is absent. Gerald reads the letter of complaint outloud to the audience. Gerald Shay: I guess at this point I would ask if any people have any additional comments in addition to the letter. OK, I guess I would ask Joe, the City Attorney, what is our legal standing this time? Where are we at as a Planning Board? What do we have the power to do? I'd like to be straight on that before we get too deep into this. Joe Bradley The letter is addressed to Cal Cumin, who enforces the Ordinancees. Cal actually doesn't do the enforcement. Enforcement would be either through my office of the City Attorney or through the County Offices, the County • Attorney. Cal is our advisor and we put alot of weight in his advice, but we do the enforceing. Gerald Shay- In fact, we don't do the enforcement. Joe Bradley- No, and we are only an advisory body. But, I thought this would be an appropriate forum to consider this and to give Mr. Temple a chance to respond. The Ordinance that we are concerned with is one of the Home Occupation Ordinances, 17.44.010(B)§ 2. It is my understanding that Mr. Temple runs an artist studio and shop in his home. I think that the first question that the Board should ask of these people that signed the letter is what evidence do they have to show that this is a commercial welding shop? They have alleged that, but I don't see any proof except the comments' from his (Mr. Temple) wife that it is a welding shop. Roy Johnson- I brought an article from the Laurel Outlook that pretty well states that it is'a welding shop. Cal Cumin- I have an undated copy of a Laurel Outlook, I believe, with an article with a picture of Mr. Temple standing by a sculpture of what is termed a "Scotsman". The article is entitled "The Scotsman is Completed". I will read the caption. It says " Using a wire fed welder assedaline torch and an electric grinder, welded metal sculpturess Gary Temple recently completed a 350 pound black iron and galvanized steel Scotsman which was commissioned in November of last year. Temple, who learned the art form in 1984 in a basic welding class offered by Laurel Community Education and taught by Harold Elton, said "The • Scotsman took a good 4 months to complete". The metal sculpture, which measures about 6? feet tall has a pleated kilt, bagpipes and tam o'shanter and was purchased by a resident of Big Sky. Temple held an open house for the Scotsman September 12th in his new studio at 1740 W. Maryland Lane. About 75 people attended, he says. Using a variety of metals Temple has sculpted indoor and outdoor pieces including mail boxes, water fowl, big game animals, upland game birds and fish. The Appache' corporation of Minneappolis, Minnesota, and other collectors in Wyoming, Montana and Minnesota frequently buy his finished products. Temple is also branch manager of Security Federal Sav.ngs in Laurel. Joe Bradley- There is no date on that? Cal Cumin- No. Joe Bradley- Gary, do you know a date on that? Gary Temple- Uh, September of 1986. Joe Bradley- Roy, I hope you don't mind if I talk to you because you are the only one I know here. So, if you want to speak for the rest of the group. Because he (Mr. Temple) sculpts these artistic things in his studio, is that why you consider him a commercial welding shop? Roy Johnson- He's building these things for sale. He's making money at it. He has people cane in and help him. It's not just a home craft industry, it's a growing business. Page 2 Meeting of the Laurel Planning Board January 12, 1989 Joe Bradley- Are you saying that he has employees? Roy Johnson- He's had people come in and work for him and pay them. Joe Bradley- You've been on this Board a long time, and you're familiar with the Home Occupation statuates, right? Roy Johnson- Yes. Joe Bradley- Some businesses for profit are allowed in homes. Roy Johnson- But not if they are a nuisance to the neighbor's. Joe Bradley- This Board deals with violations of the zoning and this Board will make recommendations and enforce them if they occur. But nuisances are something different. Roy Johnson- Let's go to (Zoning ordinance) 17.28. That is a list of things that belong in a Residential Zone. Isn't an RE 20,000 a residential zone? Joe Bradley- Yes, that's a residential zone. Roy Johnson- It says right here that it takes a special review. Joe Bradley- Under what catagory? . Roy Johnson- There isn't a catagory for a welding shop. That's what I am saying. In other words a guy can't have a welding shop out there. Joe Bradley- But there is a catagory for Home Occupation for artist's and sculptures, you understand that? Roy Johnson- Not for a welding shop. For sculptures per say, out of marble and clay and things like this. Chuck Dickerson- But how can you define and specify sculpturing and artistry to marble and clay? Joe Bradley- That is going to be our problem. Gerald Shay- We have a definition problem here right off the top. Joe Bradley- I am sure that everyone here on the Board knows what art is. Knows what it is and isn't, but art is not defined. The sculpture medium isn't. We are not going to sit here and say that that is not art. We can't do that. if that is what he says he is then we will let him speak. But whether he sculpts with welding material or not that is still going to be well within that Hone occupation. Roy Johnson- Painting a picture creates no noise. It's a very silent type of craft. To sculpt with clay creates no noise. To sculpt with I-beam steel and sheet metal, the grinding and pounding creates noise. It might be an art form but it is a form that is very aggrevating. There is no difference between the welding that Mr. Temple does in his shop than what Mr. Stormont does, the fellow that owns the welding shop. They weld two pieces of metal Roy Johnson (continued)- together, they grind it down to be smooth, or they pound it to be bent or strengthened. It is the process of what the welding shop does on Main street, the same as Mr. Temple does in his welding shop. Joe Bradley- The pounding and grinding, is that what you have heard all this . year? Roy Johnson- All summer. In fact, I called the Sheriff's Office several times. Evidentally they didn't do anything about it. Joe Bradley- How many people are here that signed the letter? (hands were held up) Roy Johnson- Would it bother you at 11 o'clock at night if someone were at the Catholic church grinding and pounding? Joe Bradley- How often does it happen at 11 o'clock at night? Roy Johnson- Whenever the urge hits him. Joe Bradley- Every week, once a week? Roy Johnson- Every weekend, during the week, two nights a week, four night's a week, every other weekend. It depends on the project. Mr. Butler, that signed the letter, is a retired professor, he has diabetes and is in the process of aging and probably dying. He can't sleep scene evenings because of the noise. Mr. Emerig who signed the letter is a chief surveyor for Christian Spring down in Colstrip. (unable to understand this part of tape). No one notified him of the meeting that was taking place tonight. Joe Bradley- Are ycu ever bothered early in the morning by this (noise)? • Roy Johnson- Not at 10 o'clock in the morning, but all afternoon. I can't sit on my patio when we have company and visit. Joe Bradley- Are you talking about mainly summer months? Because you wouldn't be sitting on your patio in the winter. Roy Johnson-- I'd say when it's warn enough to open the doors over there. Joe Bradley- Open the doors at the Temple's? Roy Johnson- I'd say its warm enough to open the doors in March, that's usually when he starts. Joe Bradley- Is the problem mainly when he does this activity when the doors are open? Is that when the problem is? Roy Johnson- Yes sir. Joe Bradley- Are you saying that you don't care when the doors are closed? Roy Johnson- You can hear it but it's not as reverberating to the neighbor- hood. Joe Bradley- That doesn't both you so much? 0 Page 3 Meeting of the Planning Board January 12, 1989 Roy Johnson- You can hear it but not as much. I can't sit in my back roam and watch TV without listening to a high pitch grinder running. Joe Bradley- When the doors are open? Roy Johnson- When the doors are open. You know it's nice to sit there and watch a baseball game and here the whining of a grinder for 9 innings. Joe Bradley- Is there something else anyone can add? Roy Johnson- I have one more complaint- it's a minor safety complaint. But, there were same kids out on the side of the ditch watching the arc welder. I had to run them off. They thought watching those flashes was one of the greatest things on earth. I finally walked over and explained to them that they could damage their eyes by watching the flashes. Joe Bradley- Where were they standing? Roy Johnson- On the ditch bank. On our side looking over there watching the welding shop with the door's wide open. If you are outside mowing, or whatever, you can get the flashes fram the welder. You can call it art if you want to, but it's a cammercial welding shop. It makes the same noises that this fellow makes over here across the street. Your joining pieces of metal together. You're grinding them down to a smooth surface. It's not in the sense of sculpturing. It may be sculpture that you are referring to in that. Joe Bradley- The sculpturing that I am referring to in here is not defined at all. It just says sculpturing. It doesn't say in sculptured clay on it. Roy Johnson- And when was that drawn up. In 1978. Joe Bradley- Approximately. Roy Johnson- There is a fellow in Billings that does the same type of work, what's his name? Grace Edwards- Pomeroy. Lyndon Pomeroy. Roy Johnson-- Yes, he lives on Poly but his shop is down in the industrial part of Billings, simply because he doesn't want his neighbor's disturbed by the noise. Unknown person- (can't recognize voice from tape) It didn't used to be. For years he had it at 917 Yale. Gerald Shay- Just for the record Roy, how far are your perspective houses from the Temple property? Just so we have an idea for our minutes. Roy Johnson- he ditch is 35 feet wide, the property line is 85 feet and there is another 150 feet. So, you are talking 250 to 270 feet. Gerald Shay- Did you take from his property line? Roy Johnson- No, from the other side of the ditch. From the ditch to the other side of his garage is probably another 100 feet. Gerald Shay- So where are we at, I lost track? Roy Johnson- We are probably at 350 feet. Mr. Etnrig lives all the way across the road where Lloyd Sinclair used to live. Gerald Shay- So, it's all the way on the other side of 9th Avenue. Roy Johnson- Yes. And, he had to get out of bed at 11 o'clock one night to call Temple and tell him to knock off the noise because he had to get same sleep. Gerald Shay- OK, just so we had sane idea of distances. Do any of you other people who are on this letter have anything to say about this? Mr. Hansen- I would say that I live about 125 feet frcm the front door of his shop. Gerald Shay- OK, and you are who? Mr. Hansen- I am Mr. Hansen. Gerald- OK, and you live North, is that right? OK, on West Maryland? And you have esentially the same ccmplaints, and so forth? Is that right? Mr. Hansen- I think mine would be more because I am alot closer. Gerald Shay- OK, but it's basically when the doors are open. What is the situation when the doors are closed? Mr. Hansen- Well, in the last.2 months the work and noise have really slowed down. I am not sure why, maybe it is because he has the doors closed (can't understand tape right here). But you can hear him at night. Gerald Shay- OK, there has been then, grinding, pounding noises or whatever, noise we will say up to 10 o'clock? Mr. Hansen- Well, I think there was one time he was out there until about 11 o'clock. I think he had a person helping him. Gerald Shay- OK, anybody else? Cal Cumin- You state in your letter to me that Mr. Temple was duly infornied that he was in violation of the.zoning ordinances. Would somebody explain that? Ray Johnson- Bob Hansen informed him that he was in violation of the ordinance and covenants. Tom Paxinos, Mr. Paxinos' dad, and Dale Evans, who has since moved because of the stress of the whole thing. I guess he got bad from other reasons, but the stress just kept him so emotional the noise and everything. He sold his house and moved to Billings. Cal Cumin- You basically told Mr. Temple that he was in violation of the zoning ordinances, is that right Mr. Hansen? Mr. Hansen- I have never told him that. We have discussed it a number of times. Page 4 Meeting of the Planning Board, January 12, 1989 Cl Gerald Shay- Before we get away from the other side of the discussion. Now, did you call the Sheriff's office and that netted you what? Roy Johnson- Nothing. Joe Bradley- How many times did you call them? Roy Johnson - Four or five times. Joe Bradley- Did the Sheriff respond each time? Roy Johnson- I have no idea. Joe Bradley- You never heard back anything? Gerald Shay- You never got any feedback? Roy Johnson- I called 256-2900. That's the Sheriff's office in Billings. Joe Bradley- But they never bothered to tell you what they did? Roy Johnson- No feedback at all. I walked into the Courthouse several times. Joe Bradley- When was the last time you called? Roy Johnson- The last time I heard the noise. Joe Bradley- And when was that? Roy Johnson- I have no idea. September, or October? Clarence Foos- Wayne, you are a deputy sheriff, and you live next door. How many calls have you gotten on this matter? Wayne Fox- Well, I have been approached by several of the neighbor's from time to time, and I tell them each the same thing each time, that I care not to be involved! It is my neighborhood, it is where I live and if anyone has any problems I would assume that they would go through the sheriff's office. In regards to the sheriff's office employee's, I am familiar of one, possibly two, times that the Sheriff's office had been called. And being one particular time I am aware of the deputy did respond in the proper time. There may be a second time, but I am not aware of that. In that particular time where the deputy did respond, it is my understanding that the deputy did advise him of the time involved and that he would have to quit his working at a reasonable hour (can't understand Mr. Fox's conversation for about 15 seconds on tape). Gerald Shay-- Do you also live in the neighborhood, Wayne? 0 Wayne Fox- I live next door. Roy Johnson- I'd like to add that Wayne is a friend of mine, I consider him a friend. I have tried everything in the world to keep him out of this, and that is why I have gone to the Courthouse to make my calls, to keep him out of it. I just don't feel like I should impose on him. 49 Cal Cumin- How long have you lived out there Roy? Roy Johnson- Since 1978, I built the house out there. Cal Cumin- Is that a similiar time frame from the rest of the neighborhood out there? Mr. Hansen- 1979. Roy Johnson- Jim Creecy has been out there since 1976. We were the first ones that built out there. I bought out there because of what the covenants said. They were explicite in things like this. I invested my money to have a home out there to retire in and I don't feel like I should have to sell my place because of slot of noise. Joe Bradley- We have had alot of discussion about covenants here, and you do know that they are more civil. Roy Johnson- I know. Joe Bradley- You know that you could hire a private attorney and take it to court. Roy Johnson- That's why I am going after the County ordinances so I don't have to go that mute. Cal Cumin- What County ordinance is he violating? Roy Johnson- Having a business in a subdivision. Cal Cumin- That's a City ordinance Roy. A City ordinance. Roy Johnson- But the City extends out to the RE 20,000. Cal Cumin- But it's a City enforced ordinance. Mr. Johnson did provide me a copy of the declaration of restrictions for that subdivision and it basically says, just for the record... Roy Johnson- You might tell them what date they were drawn up Cal. Cal Cumin- November 12, 1975. To summarize it says "each of the above lots shall be known and described as a residential lot and may not be used or improved for other than private residential purposes including home occupations. No structure shall be erected, placed or permitted to remain thereon except a single family dwelling, except a garage or workshop". Gerald Shay-- OK, now none of the people on the letter, if you have said every- thing you want to present we will get Mr. Temple to talk. Yes, Mr. Hansen? Mr. Hansen- I think I saw him trying to fit a bumper on Dr. Wheeler's son's truck and also I looked at an old Model T cab that has been sitting out in front of his shop for about 6 months. And you know, if he bought it he should of put it in his shop. Page 5 Meeting of the Planning Board, January 12, 1989 C? Gerald Shay- OK. Any other person who wants to talk? OK, then Mr. Temple you can talk. Dennis Paxinos- I am Dennis Paxinos, P.O. Box 20537, Billings, Mt. 59103. I am representing Mr. Temple here tonight. I am put in somewhat of an awkward position. My father lives in the neighborhood. I know Mr. Hansen. I know Mr. Evans. I represented Mr. Evans in a lawsuit at one time. However, I feel that as a.neighborhood, and I speak for Mr. Temple, I think Mr. Temple is trying to live with the neighborhood. I have reviewed the ordinances that were discussed and it seems to me fairly clear that there are restrictions as to what can go on within a home. But the City has made an exception to what can go on, and they have entitled that a Hone Occupation. And one of the Hone Occupations deals with an artist and sculptor. What it comes down to is what is the definition of art. One man's art is another man's eyesore. One man's thing of beauty can be noise pollution to someone else. Gary started this in 1984, and I believe he has lived in his residence since 1981. He started out his occupation as a photographer, hunter, painter and he branched into taking those painting and photographs and what he saw hunting, and he wanted to create what he saw into a 3 dimensional drawing. He took welding classes so he could try to make that drawing eon to life. And in that short period of time Mr. Temple has became an amateur sculptor and in my opinion one of the finest sculptors in Montana. He has taken what some people would call rusty junk and created a flying Pegusus. I asked Mr. Temple to try to invite as . many Board members as he could to cane out and see that this isn't a commercial welding shop. He is not out there welding radiators, it is an artist's studio. To coin an expression, it is a state of the art studio. He has tried to make it that way. He is insulating and sheetrocking it. He is doing everything he can to put the equipment in there so as not to distract his neighbors. He did operate out of his garage. He made a beautiful addition for it. There is no doubt about it, if he did operate out of his garage I would of probably complained. He is trying to respect the neighborhood. He wants to live in that neighborhood. He and his wife are both important to this community. The idea that this is a commercial welding shop doesn't seem to fit. I realize that it's hard to define the difference. Some people say what is the difference between welding a radiator or a Pegasus. But to tell a man that you cannot create art that you cannot bring your vision into a hone occupation. I believe that the statutes are quite clear. Even in the restrictions from the subdivision it says that a hone occupation is allowed together with a garage and workshop. I talked to Gary about the hours. Artist's sometimes get contracted to do a piece of work. As I said, Mr. Temple works at a bank. It isn't like he is devoting 24 hours to his art, although I feel that if he could he would. But Mr. Johnson seems to be of the opinion that if you make any money off of this you can't do it in your home. But I don't believe that that is the definition of a heme occupation. I don't think Gary is making alot of money off of it. I don't think that is the whole point here. Mr. Hansen has talked about the old Model T, or old car, sitting out there. Well, from that old car Gary created a rush of pheasants. Gerald Shay- Yeah, when it's done. But until it's done it's still a rusty • old car. I'm sorry but that is the way it is. Dennis Paxinos- I believe that Mr. Temple has now stockpiled in his backyard, so it is not unsightly. I believe he is thinking of putting a small barn in, that meets with restrictions, and to one day close that in. But, one man's woodpile , one man's rusty tools, there is really not alot of difference. Here is a letter from a person named Larry Moore, and I don't have copies made. I don't know if he is here tonight at the meeting. It states almost the opposite. It states that he sits on his porch and the noise really doesn't both him. Gerald Shay-- Let's get this letter into the record. Cal Cumin- This is from Larry Moore of 1834 Hudson Circle in Laurel. "As indicated above, my address is located within the Hudson Subdivision of which I awn lot # 12. In relation to Mr. Temple's hone my lot is located on the lot directly Southwest of his. My family has maintained residence at the address referrenced above for the past six months. During this time we have not seen or heard any activities originating from the Temple household that created a nuisance in terms of sight or sound. In fact, during the summer and fall we quite often used our deck, which faces the Temple home, during which time it created no problems. If you have any problems or questions, please contact me. Sincerely, Larry Moore". Dennis Paxinos- Certainly in that shop, studio, some of you were there before, is a sculpture of.Charlie Russel of Charlie painting a picture. It is all done with metal on metal. The canvas itself, and I hate to give anything away before the unveilina, is an almost, I think, unique form of welding when the canvas is becoming a picture of Charlie Russell. How can you look at something like that and not say it is art. It is this man's creation. And there will be times when you take some sculpture like that and it has to be placed on the pedestal outdoors. Those doors will have to be opened. But, I believe that Mr. Temple has tried to enclose that. He has tried to insulate his studio so his neighbor's won't be distracted. I don't believe that he wants any of his grinding to distract his neighbor's. He is simply trying to create art without distracting his neighbors and he has done everything in his power to do so. Give him an exception for being an artist or a sculptor. Gerald Shay- You have mentioned some insulation, sheetrock, etc. to try and soundproff, deaden the sound, that would get outside the walls. What is the time frame on completing that, or is it finished to this point. Is there more to be done? Gary Temple- Other than canvas that will go on the north side of my studio, it is done. Gerald Shay- So, it is insulated and done. What is the date that it was done? Gary Temple- Merle Cherry came in on the 10th of July and I threw him out on the 10th of August (can't make out last sentence on tape). Dennis Paxinos- Mr. Temple had a contract to do a certain project and apparently the sheetrockers were taking longer and I believe this is when (can't understand tape). It was eventually sheetrocked by someone else (can't understand tape again). Then he closed off the front in an effort to make sure that Mr. Hansen would be disturbed. He does have back doors, but from an aerial map I believe almost everyone that signed the petition is at least 300 feet away, if not further. Page 6 Meeting of the Planning Board, January 12, 1989 . Gerald Shay- Mr. Johnson stated that. Grace Edwards- Mr. Hansen is closer. Gerald Shay- Well, yes, with the exception of Mr. Hansen who is right across the street. Dennis Paxinos- I tried to put everybody's name in here, and there is a scale right down here. Gerald Shay- It is kind of hard to see this. i don't know if you want to pass this around so everyone can see. (Planning Board members view map) Grace Edwards- Where does West 8th cane in? It doesn't cane all the way across. Joe Bradley- Is Mr. Temple working regular hours now? How late does he normally work? (can't understand tape- too many people are talking at once) Cal Cumin-- Roy, were you going to hand anything out to the Planning Board? Roy Johnson- No. Gerald Shay-- Do you have any more presentation, Mr. Paxinos? Dennis Paxinos- I have talked to Gary about this, and I believe he has done everything he can, noise wise. But, I don't live there. I have tried to have the doors closed and stand back by the fence to listen. To me, I wouldn't notice it any more than anybody mowing his lawn 2 houses away. As for the anvil, Mr. Temple is trying ways of insulating his stand to eleviate that noise. Again, I think he is trying to cooperate as much as he can. He wants to live in that neighborhood, and create in that neighborhood. I think he wants to put this ccmmmity, make it known by his art. I think he and his wife are doing that. He is a favorite son of the community, and he should be treated as such, not hounded. Mr. Fox, it is my understanding that you live next door, and you are a deputy sheriff. In the time that you have lived there... Wayne Fox- We have lived there since the 6th of May. Mr. Paxinos- have you heard the noise carving fran the Temple home? Wayne Fox- I have heard the noise, and when I have heard it it has been at a reasonable hour. Gerald Shay- In the last few months, Mr. Hansen, you have stated that you haven't heard the noise as much. You weren't sure whether he was working or not. Mr. Hansen- I believe it was around the 10th of October since I have not heard the noise. I believe he had a contract to finish something. He did work until 11;00. 40 Gerald Shay- Has the noise abeited since that time? Mr. Hansen- I have to be honest and say yes. But another thing I'd like to bring up. Up until about 3 years ago (can't understand tape)... and it doesn't make you feel very good to not be able to go outside. (can't understand tape) Gerald Shay- I understand that he is having his shows at Little Big Man. Is that correct? I mean, you don't have any shows at your home now. Gary Temple- The shows are by private invitation. Gerald Shay- OK, now can I ask you from October until whenever have you been working in your shop, or are you not busy now? Gary Temple- Yes, I have worked in my shop. I can show you several pictures pf pieces that have produced since then, Charlie Russell. In fact, I can show you four major pieces. in fact you saw two completed out there, including the three alligators in the backyard, which sounds pretty strange. Gerald Shay- OK, then you have been working in the shop in the time from October to November, or August, or whatever. Chuck Dickerson- I have been out there to some of Mr. Temple's art shows and I haven't seen any more traffic or disarray of traffic than I have at a Hoare Interior party or a Tupperware party in my neighborhood. If Mr. Temple built this workshop two years ago, out of curiosity, how cane so much of a time frame has lapsed before the complaint came before the Planning Board? Roy Johnson- He worked in his garage which is completely enclosed. The noise couldn't came out of the back. Chuck Dickerson- But his shop has been built for 2 years. coy Johnson- That's right. Chuck Dickerson- And he has been working in that shop for two years. Roy Johnson- That's because we've been hollering at him for two years to hold off the noise, and it has increased. We have reached the point where we want something done, we've reached the point as to how we can tell the guy to knock off the noise. Grace Edwards- Mr. Chairman, I would like to clarify something. Now, we don't issue the final license or whatever it is for a Hoare Occupation. We aren't the enforcement agency. Why are we hearing this? It seems to me that it would be very appropriate to have the enforcement agency to request, notify them that this matter has cane to our attention to request an investigation from the part of the proper authorities to see if indeed there has been a violation of the Hoene Occupation, or to take it a step further if it constitutes the definition of a nuisance in our codes, and let them make the decision. We are the advisory group. The Hoene Occupations that we have passed here since I have been on the Board have been recommendations to the City Council and to the licensing Committee. (tape had to be turned over and some conversation is lost) Page 7 Meeting of the Planning Board of January 12, 1989 ?J Gerald Shay- However, what we do here, one way or another, will be a recd mendation only or a request for a recommendation. Joe Bradley- OK, let's let them finish. Gerald Shay- Either one of you gentlemen want to comment further? Dennis Paxinos- (can't understand tape) Cal Cumin- Have you hired any other welders to work at the shop? Gary Temple- I did have someone two years ago who was cutting feathers for a duck. I did have this past summer an apprentice. He is a junior at the High School. His name is Curt Brown. That is the individual that Mr. Johnson and Mr. Hansen were referring to that they saw. Chuck Dickerson- I have one more question. Have any of you gentlemen who have signed the complaint gone over and seen Mr. Temple's workshop and how it is set up, to see if you could declare it as a studio or if you actually think it is like Storemont's (Welding Shop). Mr. Hansen- You don't actually have to go see it (can't understand rest of sentence). Chuck Dickerson- That wasn't my question. I meant physically go over and walk through it. ? (gentleman talking can't be identified)- Myself, I would hear this noise, but couldn't pinpoint actually where it was ccming from until I actually got together with some of the other neighbors' and they explained to me what it was. I suppose that once they explained what it really was then I tended to hear it more often. Roy Johnson- When he was doing his work in his garage that noise was going out the back wall and hitting Mr. Hansen right in the face. When you look at his building, it has a breezeway going right through it and it worked like a big wind tunnel with all that grinding and pounding. I'll bet you that fellow that lives one-quarter of a mile south of him could hear it. Gerald Shay- Is that with the doors open that you are talking about? Roy Johnson- Well, in the summer or during the good weather. I would like to make another comment. Gerald Shay- Roy, I don't mean to interrupt you, but let's see if there is anyone else that would like to speak on behalf of Mr. Temple. Then we will come back and you can rebuttal where you see fit. Cal Cumin-- What are your plans for working in the summer now that you have your shop insulated? what about the summertime? Haw are you going to work out there in the summertime? Gary Temple- Now that my studio is completed, since August 15th, when you close the doors it is so well insulated,and Merry Cherry can attest to this, that it is very cool. Dennis was asking me if I plan to put air conditioning in. . Right now in the winter it is 42 degrees. It's very nice. The purpose -of the studio was to improve. It is completely within the lines of the covenants and completely within the lines of the ordinances.(can't understand rest of the conversation), Gerald Shay- Would anyone like to speak in behalf of Mr. Temple? OK, Roy, go ahead. Roy Johnson- Mr. Paxinox, I believe this, how many minutes did you spend on Mr. Temple's property listening to the noise. We are talking about noise, not haw beautiful Mr. Temple's studio is. We are talking about the noise emitting from that structure whether it's solid oak or made out of plywood. It's probably a very nice structure. Every structure Mr. Temple puts on his property is very nice. But when he opens those back doors I can hear the freight trains rolling into town caning.from the West out here from my house. And when that grinder gets going, well I seriously question that he hits metal as hard when you people are out there as when he is really grinding down on a hunk of metal. That's a screaming Jessie I tell you. (can't understand last sentence) Gerald Shay- Would any of the Board like to comment? Gary- Can I ask a question of the Board? ( after a private conversation with Mr. Paxinos, Mr. Temple withdraws his request) Gerald Shay- If any of the Board members have any questions of either side, go ahead and ask, and if either side has any summation we will then go into that. Any Board members have any questions? Clarence Foos- In the letter it was stated that Mr. Temple was duly informed. I'd like to know by wham? Gerald Shay- Mr. Hansen, you said you informed Mr. Temple? Mr. Hansen- No. Roy Johnson- Tan Paxinos and Dave Evans both told him that he was in violation of the covenants and ordinances in building that welding shop. Clarence Foos- That's the two that informed him then? Roy Johnson- They both approached me and wanted me to hire a lawyer and get involved in it. I said, hey you guys wrote those covenants and if you two want to initiate the covenant's I will go along with you. But, I am not going to start it. ? (can't tell who is talking)- Is this the guy that lives right next door where Mr. Fox lives? ? (can't tell who is talking)- There was not actual letter written to him? Roy Johnson- They just stood right there in the driveway, as far as I know, and told him what he could do and what wasn't right. Page 8 Meeting of Planning Board of January 12, 1989 0 Joe Bradley- Is that true Gary, did those two talk to you? Gary Temple- When those two talked to me they talked to me about the covenant's. They didn't feel that my interpretations of the covenants were correct, and I told them my interpretation. I felt that my studio was the same as a workshop. Gerald Shay- OK, let's not get into alot of covenant's. Gary Temple- Nothing was ever said about the Ordinances because I don't believe the individuals were aware of them. Joe Bradley- When was this conversation? Gary Temple- You got me. I'd say June of 1986. Joe Bradley- Before you finished your studio? Gerald Shay- OK, does anyone on the Board have any additional questions? Is anything in your mind hazey? Roy Johnson- The workshop, Mr. Evans explained to me, and he was one of the partners that drew up the covenants, the word workshop was to be construed as a fellow who had a lath and other woodworking equipment. ID Gerald Shay- OK Roy, but I don't feel that we can get into that. We don't have anything to do with covenant's. Does anyone have anything to say on this? If no one has anything else to say then let's say it and I am going to close the hearing. I stand corrected, we can't close a public hearing when there hasn't been one. Joe Bradley- We can close the meeting to public comment. Cal Gamin- I think basically we can discuss it among the Board. Unless someone wants to correct me and decide what kind of action we can take on this if any. Joe Bradley- Is the meeting closed to public comment then? Gerald Shay- I guess so, except that if we need any additional information as we discuss things we can ask. Roy Johnson- I just wanted to make the comment that several months ago the Board listened to a lady who made an application for a kennel. A little female and male dog. The question or concern was barking that would annoy the neighbor's. Two little dogs barking can't campare to the grinding and pounding that goes on out there. That lady, I believe, was turned down. And I believe the reason was because barking dogs in the neighborhood might disturb some people. And two little snoozers barking would be drowned out by the grinding and pounding that we hear. ?J Cal Cumin- Roy, that was not the reason she was turned down. She requested to have a commercial kennel in a residential zone. We told her that if she wanted to do that she would have to apply for a zone change. Roy Johnson- I didn't say turned down, I said consideration for barking dogs. 49 Grace Edwards- I think that is irrelevant to this, however. Gerald Shay- I am going to close this for comment. I think everyone has had a chance to talk, I ask that unless we direct a specific question that we will close the comments from the gallery and go ahead and discuss it among the Board. Grace Edwards- I just wanted to bring up what I brought up. Joe Bradley- That is a good question that you brought up, Grace. I think, but I am not 100% sure about this this, but I am probably the enforcement agency for this with one mile zoning. Although we did go to the County Attorney for this stuff about Anderson's place out there. Gerald Shay- But that was about 3'k miles out. Joe Bradley- Yes but I would assume that it's the Laurel zoning Ordinance that goes one mile out of the City limits, so I an the enforcer. But I don't have to just sit here and decide for myself. I would like your opinion as to whether you think it is an artist' studio or a welding shop. For the record, I think the Board members that visited the studio should identify themselves. I was out. (After a short discussion, it was found that every member of the Planning Board had made it out to visit Mr. Temple's studio except for Grace Edwards.) Grace Edwards- But, is that what we h3m to deci&? Ycu sue, I think, and thm D3ri s brCLT*1t up sL thing, saying, we have to decide what art is. No , we don't have to decide that. If Mr. Temple says it's art then we won't argue, even though we are all emminently qualified to do so. Yes, and we would all have ten different opinions I am sure. But Mr. Temple says he is and I have to agree with him. I don't argue with poets either, if they say they are poets. I think what we are being asked to decide is if this is a nuisance. And, I don't think that is what this Board is for. What I hear described by the complaintant's sounds to me like a heck of a nuisance. It reminds me of the barking dogs in my neighborhood, and believe me they keep you awake at night. They bother you in the day time too. I don't believe that that is the function of this Board , Joe, so I am confused at this point as to what the heck we are suppose to do with this. We have provided a public forum, and that certainly is one of the functions of the Planning Board. Then what? Joe Bradley- Well, we have a petition that alleges a commercial welding shop in a zone that prohibits it. Gerald Shay- I think that was the thrust of the letter. Joe Bradley- I have to agree with you Grace, that if these people think that Mr. Temple's shop is a nuisance that is not prosecuted through the City because that is not part of the zoning ordinance. It is out of my jurisdiction. It's • the Sheriff's office and the County Attorney, which you called and apparently wouldn't do anything, but that's who would have to do it. Or, file a civil suite against your neighbor's on the basis of a nuisance. Page 9 Meeting of the Planning Board of January 1.2, 1989 C? J Grace Edwards- And on the basis of the covenant's. Is that right? Joe Bradley- Right. Gerald Shay- OK, then correct me if I am wrong Joe, but then our function here is to find out if there is a violation of zoning ordinances, and if so... Joe Bradley- Then you recommend to me what you want me to do with this, and I will. We were out there, we saw it, and it looks like an artist's studio to me. I am not going to dicker with the guy on the medium he uses, whether it's clay or welding material. Our ordinance doesn't say it can't be welding material so we can't go to look at it. We didn't limit the medium that the sculptors could use. So we can't read that into the Ordinance. It's my opinion that it is not a zoning violation but if anyone on the Board disagrees with that... Cal Cumin- Well, the zoning Ordinance under the Hone Occupations, which the City Attorney referred to earlier, specifically allows as a hone occupation an artist or sculptor. I do not think that we can argue the fact that Mr. Temple is not an artist and a sculptor. Because I think he could prove that hands dawn. I think if he is doing commercial welding in his shop on car bumpers this is a violation of the license as a hose occupation, or the ability to do a hone occupation and this can be addressed. But I think that would be pretty hard to prove or ant and I think it's going to take regress through the Court's on the part of the injured parties as a nuisance, and not something we can do here because the ordinance says it is allowed there. We haven't defined which kind of artist's or sculptor's we can allow in this area so we have to live with the fact that he is an artist. I think he can prove that to anybody, any court. He has that right to be there. It would behoove Mr. Temple, in the neighborhood out there, to try to work out some time frames or this type of thing. Mr. Temple's attorney has said that he wants to live in that neighborhood and create in that neighborhood, and some of his neighbor's are objecting to that. But, that is not a zoning issue and I don't think it is for us. Chuck Dickerson- Is it an ordinance, or what, that loud noises are curtailed at 10 o'clock at night? Whether its for sawing, or anything like that. Joe Bradley- It is not an ordinance, but if Mr. Temple was in City limits I would tell him that our standard for disturbing the peace or disorderly conduct is 8 a.m. to 9 or 10 o'clock at night. That is what we use in the City. And if someone is out hammering until midnight we will use that. But that is in the city and has nothing to do with zoning. Chuck Dickerson- But, that's a guideline that could be used within 1 mile of the City limits to adhere to the same guideline that is accepted in the City, so you don't have different standards but you follow"the same guidelines. Joe Bradley- And that's what the Sheriff's office is talking to them about, they told them that 8 or 9 o'clock is their guideline. It sounds to me that the problem is being solved. There hasn't been any significant problem since the studio was finished, nobody has noticed any noise despite the fact that he has finished four major pieces in the last few months. So, it sounds to me like there is not going to be the problem this coming year that you had in the past. Joe Bradley- oy, you said yourself that when the door's are closed it didn't bother you really. And, Mr. Temple says that now that his studio is completed his doors won't be open in the summer even when it's hot. It doesn't sound to me that the problem is going to be going on. 40 Gerald Shay- OK, now after all that do we need to take any action? Joe Bradley- Unless someone wants to make a motion that Mr. Temple be prosecuted, they should make it now or forever hold their peace. Gerald Shay- OK, no motion is appearing. I would guess that the people that object to this, as far as our zoning codes go Mr. Temple is within the zoning code. Now nuisance is another colored horse but that is not our balawick`,. Joe Bradley- If you see Mr. Temple out welding on a car, and get proof, then take that to the Police station and it will be investigated. Mr. Hansen- '(can't understand tape) Joe Bradley- That's true, but we are dealing with criminal violations of the zoning ordinance. We are not here telling you what it is to be neighborly. Mr. Hansen- I know that. (can't understand tape) Gerald Shay- I don't have the illusion that we solved the problem, although I would like to thank all of you for the presentations that you made. You did a wonderful job presenting your case, both sides. And we appreciate your restraint and decor=. You handled yourselves very well. Mr. Paxinos- I would like to ask Mr. Bradley if when he visited Mr. Temples studio if he had Mr. Temple pound and use the grinder? Joe Bradley- Yes, I did. Mr: Paxinos- With the door closed was that a nuisance to you? (can't under- stand tape) Joe Bradley- We asked mr. Temple to use his grinder and we stook out by his back fence by the ditch. We also asked him to pound on his anvil. The grinder didn't bother me, and I don't see how that can be a problem. The anvil rang like a bell and made all the neighbor's dog's bark, but i suspect that he was hitting it harder than he normally would. He was hitting it straight on and there was nothing to serve as a buffer to it. I doubt if it is that blatant most of the time. Cal Cumin- Also, I think if you put that anvil, which is presently mounted on a hollow steel pedestal, on wood it is going to help the noise. But that is not the function of this Board to ask him to do that. Grace Edwards- Well, we've been asked, to do alot of things, we might as well give him some free advice too. Clarence Foos- I would like to give him some advice. Do you wear ear plugs when you work? Gary Temple- Yes. Page 10 Meeting of the Planning Board of January 12, 1989 E Clarence Foos- OK, that's all I wanted to know. I don't want you to wreck your hearing. Clarence Foos- Can we put it into the budget to buy 15? earplugs for all the neighbors? Gerald Shay- I don't think that is in the budget. Cal Cumin- I think that the people who are complaining here tonight have two avenues of approach if they want to pursue it, and both of them are legal. One of them is to pursue their nuisance and the other one is the violations, if you feel there are any, of their covenants'. However, your covenants' do allow home occupations and they also allow workshops, so the proving of this rests with you. Grace Edwards- Possibly another thing that the City of Laurel might want to consider in the future is a noise ordinance. I believe there is one in Billings, and I believe, it was passed quite sane time ago. We thought there would be a terrible furror over it, but there wasn't. Cal Cumin- the problem with that is that this is not in the City limits and that wouldn't work. Unless the County would like to enact a countywide noise ordinance. Grace Edwards- Now that sounds like it would be alot of fun. We haven't had much excitement here lately, at least for a day or so. Gerald Shay- As far as this Board, we have discussed it and found that no one on the Board felt that there was a zoning violation. Our City Attorney had the same bent. so, that is all we can do on the matter. Motion b Clarence Foos, seconded by Darrell Aaby to adjourn the meeting. The meting was adjourned at $;19. Respectfully submitted, Cheryll Lund, Secretary 0 LAUREL- YELLOWSTONE CITY - COUNTY PLANNING BOARD LAUREL, MONTANA 59044 January 11, 1989 Laurel - Yellowstone City - County Planning Board Laurel, Mt. 59044 Dear Members: I am very sorry that I cannot attend the meeting of January 12, 1989. . In response to the letter dated December 17, 1988, to the Laurel City - County Planning Board. I visited the home of Gary Temple at 1740 W. Maryland Lane, and did not find a commercial welding business as was stated in the letter, but instead found an artist's studio which is allowed in the RE- 20,000 Zone. I also viewed the backyard which to me appeared to be quite orderly, neat, and well fenced. There was a small pile of steel and other objects, which to me did not appear unsightly. These were somewhat obscured by snow. I do not feel that the Temple's are in violation of zoning ordinance. Si. erely, 1 -4: / t / it 5-- Hawley smith Chai JHS/cl L. i December 17, 1988 Mr. Cal Cumin Planning Director Laurel City- County Board % Planning Department Laurel, Montana 59044 Dear Mr. Cumin: In June 1979, the Laurel City- County Planning Board, with the approval of the Laurel City Council developed, defined and passed ordinances to regulate and protect property development within the one (1) mile area adjacent to the Laurel city limits. The ordinances are explicit and define what is allowed and disallowed within the RE(Chapter 17:28 Zoning Code) 20,000 zone identified for residential development. During the summer of 1986, Mr. Gary Temple constructed a commercial welding shop on his residential property which is zoned RE 20,000. The welding shop is located /attached to the Temple residence located at 1740 W. Maryland Lane, within the Laurel zoning enforcement authority. Although the property is out of the Laurel city limits, Laurel does have the zoning enforcement authority up to one (1) mile outside its city limits. Since the property is located in an RE 20,000 zoning district, residential activities only are allowable as defined by the zoning ordinance. Those of us who built or bought in this area did so to enjoy the amenities of openness, tranquility and protection of property values. We are tired of the loud grinding and pounding of heavy steel material resonating from Temple's welding shop. We totally disapproved of the unsightly stockpiling of rusting piles of scrap metal kept on Temple's property. Continuation of loud shop noises and the unsightly mess will in time cause a deterioration of property values in our area. Mr. Temple was duly informed when he constructed the welding shop that he was in violation of zoning ordinances. He choose to abuse his neighbors and totally disregarded their comments. He encourages public visitations at his commercial welding shop promoting his business. As citizens and taxpayers in the area, we are now asking you to enforce the zoning ordinances and instruct Mr. Temple to cease the operation of this commercial welding shop in our zoned RE 20,000 area. Sincerely, z 2 --, 2 4 c,..., ,, , 7 4/ 5 6.-- "3/a, -,_ v --f-"e.1, .-- d< .:, )1.,______ ,_ c '- . / yO ? Lt./ '7 P /L -2 / // „4/ ZA,e &( 17 - .,- �cc,rG..., 1 16p "1 ' 173 / 7 2 ) _ c,.) . F CA-ul 0- a-t MA-r". 44: NZ:: 1 - 1.. Ow - g ©$ s LI i